Author Topic: COLLYERS MANSION FIRES.  (Read 2914 times)

Offline 68jk09

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COLLYERS MANSION FIRES.
« on: August 08, 2011, 07:34:57 AM »
There were some previous posts on the subject but they are not turning up on the "Search" function regarding tactics or lessons learned just an increased frequency of the use of the term " Collyers Mansion"....in my time OTJ i have been to more than a few "Collyers Mansion " jobs refered to as C.M. jobs in this post ...some resulting in saving a life & some resulting in recovering a body.....other C.M.s were just a tough ass kickin Fire.....but all were a challenge & that is why i & all you BROTHERS go/went to work ever day .....first off i agree that the term may be used more often today when it may only be an overly cluttered apt not really a true C.M ( as said "better to err on the side of caution")....BUT...(as a B.C. get inside early & see for yourself what it actually is so you can make the appropriate attack plan & get the necessary resources on the scene)....it also seems however that a lot of older civilians w/OCD or other reasons who started loading up apts many, many years ago may now be reaching the total overload point ....either way i will attempt to offer some info on the true C.M. subject for your consideration to operate safely in these C.M. jobs ....during my time in R*2 i went to quite a few (they do not go out too quick) & a few more after that.....allright.....starting at the apt door...it opens in but maybe not more than a few inches for the occupant to squeeze in & out
(which may work for them but after a Fire starts & you are geared up the "normal" opening may not work so you may be confronted w/entirely removing the door (definitely charged line in place w/area of refuge planned...1st choice out if called for would be DOWN the stairs or 2nd choice into another apt.which should be already opened).......if you CAN then you move in ....sometime may require climbing on top of the clutter if the aisle space has been filled w/stuff.....if it is too high to do so or the heat is too much at the higher level you now have 2 choices....if the door has been removed then a line MUST stay at the doorway opening to protect the hallway & floors above....(if the door was still intact & can be closed & there is no excessive high heat then the initial line can be taken into an adjoining apt (if the layout is such) & the backup line can be placed at the door .....breaching is now an option...(i have however made the attempt & encountered large objects ranging from supermarket shopping carts filled w/junk to a full size aluminum post complete w/walk/dont walk sign attached laying horizontally a few feet off the floor on top of other junk....you will not know until you make an attempt....a few early SMALL probing holes can give you a heads up if breaching is apossibility in your particular situation .....if the normal apt entrance is totally blocked & breaching does not accomplish anything & attempts to enter via windows from ladders or fire escapes does not give you access for VES/EXTINGUISHMENT then you have a serious problem....consider the original weight of the stuff in the apt .....now consider the water that has been applied thru whatever opening was available......consider the occupancies BELOW..... (normal ops have taken care of floors above) ....evacuate those BELOW & utilize shoring on the floor BELOW & consider utilizing water applied from the floor above.... (holes cut in floor w/distributors etc utilized).....this generally (thankfully) is not the norm but was the scenario utilized in a Sunnyside Queens C.M. Fire in 2006 ( i did not have this job but the BROTHERS on the scene from the FFs to the I.C. were some of the most experienced & after exhausting all other normal FF tactics this resolved the problem which also occurred on an extremely hot day).....getting back to the "normal" if a C.M.job can be called that ....you force the apt door & move in for VES/EXTINGUISHMENT & you are climbing/crawling on debris ....you may or may not realize you may be moving up an incline & now you approach a window opening that has self vented or has been taken out by an Aerial....you may be on debris piled up to sill level or higher & crawl right out a window...( a previous POSSIBLE indication depending on wind direction could have been a cool breeze blowing in your direction but w/todays PPE you probably would not feel it....not saying that PPE is not a good thing just mentioning an old fact that may help in a last ditch situation)....a variety of C.M.s can occur in any type occupancy from a so called "fire proof" M.D. to a little overloaded bungalow/ranch (RIP Vinny Fowler Jr.1999)....another alternate entry in certain type jobs whether C.M. occupancies or not such as a lower floor Fire in a Brownstone or similar type layout where the main entrance is blocked w/debris &/or heavy Fire that has an interior stair from the basement to the 1st floor could allow a Nozzle team/& or Search team to make entry from below (a word of caution ...entry from below by an alternative entry such as an interior basement/cellar stairway in a brownstone/outside street & or/bilco type door is sometimes dangerous .....ever see the milk container example ?.).......if the roof is NOT open or Fire has NOT vented from exterior windows ABOVE then caution must be exercised if attempting VES/Line placement from the floor BELOW as it could violently vent in a backdraft fashion DOWN as in the milk container demonstration......even when already vented above by FFs or self venting in these situations be aware that when you open the door from BELOW at the top of the stairs BELOW that the pressure in the Fire area from ABOVE that is above atmospheric can quickly fill the floor BELOW/basement with disorienting smoke....these are a few things i have garnered in my experience thru the years...some decisions apply to the Incident Commander ....some are things that the Company Officer or any FF who becomes aware of should base his reports to the I.C. on.....one more thought... C.M. Fires contain all different sorts of Fire loads...i have seen varying types..... one in which a woman was found DOA... she had filled the apt w/every beer bottle thrown on the floors of the apt that she had drank in the last 5 years to a height of 2 1/2 ft.....the superintendent of the bldg said he had cleared out the entire apt 5 years prior & filled a large dumpster but then she immediately started to fill it again ....it was mostly empty beer bottles so it was not a heavy combustible fire load but she died & searches /extinguishment were hazardous.......however another job was in an apt where the occupant saved every newspaper since WW2 & it WAS a heavy combustible Fire load ...a C.M. occupancy could contain any type of material in any type of occupancy...a NYC Fire CPT.... RIP CPT J. MC D .Cov LAD*42 died in an apt that was not even considered a C.M. just a small bedroom off the Fire escape where the occupant later stated after being interviewed by D.C. Vinny Dunne that the contents of the room were a plastic framed bunk bed w/plastic mattresses sandwiched in plastic garbage bags & a wall lined w/plastic milk crates filled w/plastic toys when all this plastic is heated to the proper temperature it burns like the petroleum base that it has....unfortunately almost all of the C.M. situations occur in apts in NYC that we do not have ready access to inspect & even when you are aware of a condition there may not be an agency to quickly address the problem....immediate CIDS entry thru the chain as well as phone notification to the surrounding Company's may be your best attempt.......take all of this for what it is worth..... however if you took the time to read it please take it back to the BROTHERS that may not have had the opportunity to read it..... & ....discuss it w/them....any questions or additions please feel free to post them on here. 

 
 
 





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COLLYERS MANSION FIRES.
« on: August 08, 2011, 07:34:57 AM »

Offline 68jk09

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Re: COLLYERS MANSION FIRES.
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2011, 07:47:10 AM »

Offline CFDMarshal

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Re: COLLYERS MANSION FIRES.
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2011, 08:03:30 AM »
Thanks chief for taking the time to share! We seem to be getting more and more of these now days!

Offline nfd2004

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Re: COLLYERS MANSION FIRES.
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2011, 08:36:21 AM »
That is some interesting information Chief. And if you don't mind I would like to pass it onto a few other F.D. sites.

Offline 68jk09

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Re: COLLYERS MANSION FIRES.
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2011, 07:57:19 PM »
BIll ...by all means feel free to pass any of my stuff around.

 

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