Author Topic: Airport Emegencies  (Read 14169 times)

Offline Kye994

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Re: Airport Emegencies
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2012, 11:55:58 PM »
68JK09,

you do make some very valid points.  It's a shame there are no more inter-agency drills.  I wish I could be more specific but all I can say there is effort being made at JFK to improve the relationship with FDNY. 
« Last Edit: January 28, 2012, 12:13:58 AM by Kye994 »
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Re: Airport Emegencies
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2012, 11:55:58 PM »

Offline IRISH

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Re: Airport Emegencies
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2012, 12:08:31 AM »

Would the PA ARFF Trucks respond if a plane came down just outside the airport grounds??
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Offline Kye994

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Re: Airport Emegencies
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2012, 12:13:35 AM »

Would the PA ARFF Trucks respond if a plane came down just outside the airport grounds??
  Yes there is a "secondary response area" immediately around the perimeter of the airport, but off the top of my head I can't tell you the street boundaries.
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Offline SYRACUSETRUCK3-2010

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Re: Airport Emegencies
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2014, 01:05:06 AM »
Per Fire Apparatus Journal in the July/August 2013 Apparatus News Briefs

The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, the agency responsible for providing aircraft fire rescue services at JFK, and LaGuardia Airports in NYC, and Newark Liberty International Airport and Teterboro Airports in New Jersey has been fined 3.5 million dollars by the Federal Aviation Administration and has agreed to form a separate firefighting unit outside the Police Department.  The fire apparatus at the airports was staffed by Port Authority Police Officers.  The fines stem from a failure to show that these police officers were adequately trained and certified to fight fires.  The new fire department is to be in operation by March 31, 2014. İFAJ Publications 2013

So can someone please explain to me what the old apparatus roster was,for these four airports and what the current roster is including make, model, unit identifier and number, pump size, water/foam/pkp if so equipped, haltron if so equipped, snozzle if so equipped?

I havent heard hyde nor hare of anything about this since it was posted any more info would be greatly appreciated.

Offline BCR

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Re: Airport Emegencies
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2014, 01:19:41 AM »
If I remember correctly the issue was that the fire dept was being cross started by the police dept and know one was specifically detailed to fire only (I think cant remember 100%) the port authority also did not have adequate records of training etc. I believe they were mandated to have a dedicated fire department in staff at all times, not on duty cops that would respond to the fire if they were not on a police call. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think that's what I heard the issue was. Personally I would have liked to see the crash rescue go to fdny for the New York depts, which I think would have helped with the rivalry the port authority has with the fdny. As far as the vehicles I don't think anything has changed or is going to change.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2014, 01:21:39 AM by BCR »

Offline Bulldog

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Re: Airport Emegencies
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2014, 05:17:33 PM »
BCR, you are correct about what the problem with the CFR units was.  Although as Syracuse mentioned I really haven't heard much about what changes were made to correct the problems.  It certainly would have made more sense to put the CFR resources under FDNY for many reasons including training and making the chain of command during a major incident much smoother but we all know that the Port Authority won't ever give up any control to anybody for any reason.

Offline aussiegeorge

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Re: Airport Emegencies
« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2015, 02:26:49 PM »
What I don't understand is why is a police dept manning fire rescue units?

Offline Bulldog

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Re: Airport Emegencies
« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2015, 04:12:24 PM »
What I don't understand is why is a police dept manning fire rescue units?
Because this is New York City and lots of things are set up strangely there!  The police try to take over everything, in addition to CFR, the NYPD ESU units also have hazmat capabilities and extrication equipment.

Offline NYBravest82

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Re: Airport Emegencies
« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2015, 07:16:41 PM »
so does this mean FDNY may finally take over?

Offline Bulldog

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Re: Airport Emegencies
« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2015, 09:19:33 PM »
so does this mean FDNY may finally take over?
That's doubtful, the report highlighting the problems with issued a long time ago and if an FDNY takeover of the CFR responsibilities was going to happen it would've already happened.  I'm sure that the PA is just changing some of their procedures but not getting rid of the responsibility.

Offline nfd2004

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Re: Airport Emegencies
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2015, 10:33:59 PM »
Well, as I try to remember, didn't the NYPD take over the Housing Police and Transit Police, which were all separate police departments within the city.

And didn't the FDNY take over the ambulance service from the city's Health and Hospitals group.

The City of New York is in a class all by itself. Nobody compares to it. I think New York City has FOUR area codes. How many cities have that ? How many "STATES" have that ? I have confidence in the fact that somebody knows what they are doing and they will do the right thing as they see fit.

Offline FD347

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Re: Airport Emegencies
« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2015, 02:08:22 AM »
Quote
I have confidence in the fact that somebody knows what they are doing and they will do the right thing as they see fit.


I guess you're an optimist.
Frank Raffa
Ret. Supv. Dispatcher, FDNY
www.FDNewYork.com
BCO - RIP
2/22/1923 - 6/3/2008

Offline Bulldog

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Re: Airport Emegencies
« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2015, 11:06:29 AM »
The City of New York is in a class all by itself. Nobody compares to it. I think New York City has FOUR area codes. How many cities have that ? How many "STATES" have that ? I have confidence in the fact that somebody knows what they are doing and they will do the right thing as they see fit.
Unfortunately, many times bigger and doesn't mean better.  Large organizations quite often get on we only because of size.  Different parts don't want to work with other parts because they are so big themselves.  That's been demonstrated many times in NYC especially between NYPD and FDNY.

Offline dan

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Re: Airport Emegencies
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2015, 11:21:53 AM »
The PA of NY and NJ is a bi-state agency that reports to the governors of both NY and NJ. They are not a NYC agency. For the last 12-18 months they have been transitioning to a civilian Fire Department separate from the PAPD. I believe some of the CFR cops will still be allowed to be detailed to the CFR crews. They are using the current vehicles. FDNY is not trained or equipped for ARFF. Nor will that be changing in our lifetime. In NYC, FDNY augments the fire protection, rescue and water supply, provides structural fire protection when notified and provides EMS when PAPD EMS at JFK are busy or the NSLIJ units at LGA are unavailable.  The PA is also taking over Stewart Airport in Orange County and is taking over Atlantic City International as well. They were stretching their PD thin using them in the ARFF numbers and were caught which is one of the reasons for the separate civilian FD.

Offline Bulldog

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Re: Airport Emegencies
« Reply #29 on: January 03, 2015, 12:35:54 PM »
The PA of NY and NJ is a bi-state agency that reports to the governors of both NY and NJ. They are not a NYC agency. For the last 12-18 months they have been transitioning to a civilian Fire Department separate from the PAPD. I believe some of the CFR cops will still be allowed to be detailed to the CFR crews. They are using the current vehicles. FDNY is not trained or equipped for ARFF. Nor will that be changing in our lifetime. In NYC, FDNY augments the fire protection, rescue and water supply, provides structural fire protection when notified and provides EMS when PAPD EMS at JFK are busy or the NSLIJ units at LGA are unavailable.  The PA is also taking over Stewart Airport in Orange County and is taking over Atlantic City International as well. They were stretching their PD thin using them in the ARFF numbers and were caught which is one of the reasons for the separate civilian FD.
This is what I guess was happening based on the lack of information being provided to the general public.  I still believe however it's in the best interest of fire protection at the airports.  There still will be to command structures managing fire operations during a major event.  One of these have years of experience with an extremely deep command structure, the other has very limited experience in fire operations and extremely limited depth in its command structure.  These airports are part of a very small group that did not have CFR operations handled by the local fire departments.  In addition as you mentioned some of the PAPD officers may be crosstrained to cover for vacancies.  If FDNY or the local fire departments in NJ took over they potentially would have many more members available to cover vacancies.  Which one would you rather have responded to an airport emergency especially if you are on the plane?

 

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