Author Topic: Airport Emegencies  (Read 14181 times)

Offline NYBravest82

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Re: Airport Emegencies
« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2015, 12:30:00 PM »
The PA of NY and NJ is a bi-state agency that reports to the governors of both NY and NJ. They are not a NYC agency. For the last 12-18 months they have been transitioning to a civilian Fire Department separate from the PAPD. I believe some of the CFR cops will still be allowed to be detailed to the CFR crews. They are using the current vehicles. FDNY is not trained or equipped for ARFF. Nor will that be changing in our lifetime. In NYC, FDNY augments the fire protection, rescue and water supply, provides structural fire protection when notified and provides EMS when PAPD EMS at JFK are busy or the NSLIJ units at LGA are unavailable.  The PA is also taking over Stewart Airport in Orange County and is taking over Atlantic City International as well. They were stretching their PD thin using them in the ARFF numbers and were caught which is one of the reasons for the separate civilian FD.
This is what I guess was happening based on the lack of information being provided to the general public.  I still believe however it's in the best interest of fire protection at the airports.  There still will be to command structures managing fire operations during a major event.  One of these have years of experience with an extremely deep command structure, the other has very limited experience in fire operations and extremely limited depth in its command structure.  These airports are part of a very small group that did not have CFR operations handled by the local fire departments.  In addition as you mentioned some of the PAPD officers may be crosstrained to cover for vacancies.  If FDNY or the local fire departments in NJ took over they potentially would have many more members available to cover vacancies.  Which one would you rather have responded to an airport emergency especially if you are on the plane?

i'd go with the department that has "fire" in its name in addition to 150 years of experience. Just seems more logical to me. If i'm on a plane, which would be a feat in and of itself, i'd have a better peace of mind if i saw a truck that said "FIRE RESCUE" instead of "POLICE" and in tiny letters under "fire rescue"...i mean, it just makes logical sense to at LEAST have FDNY trained members doing this. They train for everything else under the sun. Shouldn't be a pride or money issue, but this isn't a perfect world, and i think everyone knows the PA is anything but a perfect agency.

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Re: Airport Emegencies
« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2015, 12:30:00 PM »

Offline KEB525

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Re: Airport Emegencies
« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2015, 09:23:33 PM »
For the last 12-18 months they have been transitioning to a civilian Fire Department separate from the PAPD. I believe some of the CFR cops will still be allowed to be detailed to the CFR crews…….They were stretching their PD thin using them in the ARFF numbers and were caught which is one of the reasons for the separate civilian FD.
  Dan…where did you get your information?  No offense, YOU ARE 100% DEAD WRONG.  The Port Authority ARFF trucks are STILL 100% staffed by PAPD police personnel.  There is NOT ONE SINGLE CIVILIAN on any ARFF apparatus. The only operational changes made is the PA INCREASED the number of firefighters to each shift and each truck!!!  PAPD didn't lose a single spot and in fact gained quite a few.  The police officers assigned to "police patrol" are still cross trained as ARFF and will respond to augment the ARFF trucks as the first step to mutual aid while FDNY (or NJ dept's) are responding.  And for those of you that don't know the FAA does NOT mandate how fire protection is provided or how many "firefighters" respond, they simply require "X" amount of product be "on scene" in "X" amount of time.  Staffing was never inadequate.
Former FDNY Supv Fire Alarm Dispatcher
Last screen name was KYE994 but I locked myself out!!!

Offline Atlas

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Re: Airport Emegencies
« Reply #32 on: February 19, 2015, 11:13:20 PM »
There is a big difference from working in the fire service at an airport compared to being in a local fire station.

Growing up in an FDNY fire house & then spending time while in the Air Force as a member of the Fire Rescue service at an active SAC base home to over 120 bombers, tankers, Air National Guard fighters, Army helicopters, in addition to housing private aircraft & have our runways used by several airlines, we were kept busy. Some times we had 20 or more runs a day for runway stand-by's & various calls. We did not handle any EMS calls. We provided coverage to all the building's on base, two off base - housing areas, an off base ammo storage area, besides a school & a hospital. We also supported 2 Army Nike sites, & over a dozen remote AF facilities so 50 miles away.  Like JFK,  we had a very long runway, over ten thousand feet. The base became a site which the space ships could land in case of an emergency. We were connected to the local town, a state capital, what had a 10 station paid department. Every other dept in the area was volunteer so we did run mutual aid calls into the main town. The paid dept also supported our mission when needed.   

Our dept worked out of 4 stations. Three were dual stations that covered both structure & crash. Only one station was totally dedicated to structure with two engines assigned.

Our manning called for 5 firefighters on crash trucks. The most I ever saw was 3. The driver, crew chief, & a hand line man. We had a light rescue that could only carry a crew of two. No ladder trucks, but today some bases have one. Some of the crash trucks ran with only the driver who also was responsible for operating the remote nozzles on each of the trucks. With dual engines, we could pump & roll at the same time.

I was recently talking with a chief in a medium size paid dept who provides local airport coverage for an active airport. They do not have the manning for each rig that we would think that they should have. That is why PAPD sends trained police officers in their police vehicle to assist crash truck crews.  Yes, JFK has two stations while LGA has only one. From what I learned reading this subject tonight is that PA has increased the manning on the trucks. If FDNY took over providing coverage at the airport, I don't think that we would see an increase in the manning. The new crash rescue vehicles are set up for one person operation. Depending upon their extinguishing operation expect to see them operate for about two minutes before run out of water. Our structure rigs & tankers would be responsible for re-supplying the water. The trucks were designed to carry addition foam before that tank ran dry. We were able to refill two or more times before heading back to the station or a tanker for additional foam.

Today PAPD has come a long way just like FDNY has in the past few years. Increase training is needed so that FDNY can lean the dangers of working on an airport. It is a different world out there... Remember that you just can't drive around on their ground like we do on a city street.

Like all the other airports, PAPD is required to meet the FAA requirements for extinguishing the fire. The question asked is can the Crash Rescue team handle the aircraft that use the field? With their assigned equipment, I think that they can.

I want to thank KYE 994 for his updated insight into Port Authority Operation & if your first name began with a 'B' then I think we have worked together before. 

Offline Bulldog

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Re: Airport Emegencies
« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2015, 10:56:46 AM »
Atlas, I certainly agree with everything you said about the differences between CFR and conventional structural responses.  However there certainly is a lot bigger relationship between those 2 types of firefighting than there is between CFR and police activities.  I still believe that having the CFR function integrated into the FDNY or other local fire service makes a lot more sense than it does integrating it with the police side of operations.  It makes sense for no other reason than the fact that in the event of a major emergency the chain of command for suppression and rescue is a lot more seamless!

Offline KEB525

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Re: Airport Emegencies
« Reply #34 on: February 23, 2015, 07:21:15 PM »


I want to thank KYE 994 for his updated insight into Port Authority Operation & if your first name began with a 'B' then I think we have worked together before.
  Yes, it's me
Former FDNY Supv Fire Alarm Dispatcher
Last screen name was KYE994 but I locked myself out!!!

 

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