Pierce Mini Pumper on International Chassis.

[kfd274]

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muster09

[CFDMarshal]

That concept was a big push in the 70's with the mini-maxi concept. Syracuse NY mastered the use of Mini Pumpers with regular engine companies and Truck companies. When I came on in 1976 The first out piece was a mini pumper that was soon followed by a regular pumper.

The CAF concept is interesting but it still takes boots on the ground to defeat the enemy! Just my opinion.

[kfd274]

I spend the winter in Bonita Springs. FL.     The Bonita Springs FD purchased three similar units in the last few years.

Since over 85% of the calls are EMS calls, the plan was to use these units to respond first, and save wear and tear on the larger Pierce pumpers.

I wrote an article on the department which was published in the November/December 2011 issue of Fire Apparatus Journal.  Has info and pix of all the units.   I will try to get a picture for you on here.

[kfd274]

http://www.bonitafire.org/04apparatus.html


The units I am referring to are labelled   Rescue 21, 24, and 25

[kfd274]

http://www.bonitafire.org/st4%20rescue.JPG

[grumpy grizzly]

In regards to Syracuse wasn't their mini/max concept based on mini pumpers with the other engine component Hendrickson/Pierce tele-squrts and Sutphen tower ladders

[CFDMarshal]

I think you are correct GG, they used a beefed up chassis for the mini as well. My entire argument has always been manpower. I wanted adequate manpower on the scene. Look at your average fireflow on most structure fires, it is usually less than 500 gpm. Look at departments going to smaller multiuse apparatus with compressed air foam or some other ultra high pressure system backed up by a 1250 gpm pumper.

3 and 2 might be two minis and one normal pumper?

[grumpy grizzly]

My bitch has always been MANPOWER. I am all over Northern Illinois, NE Indiania, and lowe MI. I work for a delivery company that serves these areas and it really pisses me off to see a rig with 1 and 2 going a run. WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU THINK YOU CAN DO ON A BUILDING FIRE.? If you want more than 500 gallons I guess you need a hydrant connecton. Subtract 1 from 3=2. OK someone has to make decisions, usually an officer if you pay him. So now you have ONE crew running an inch and a half on my house. My law firm is DueWeScrewThemAndHow.. I really beleive that if most citizens start to sue the city for improper protectin, fire police things will change. Screw gabage pickup from one to two weeks, I have never seen a dead rat

[Bulldog]

The system used by Bonita Springs makes a lot of sense as far as saving wear and tear on the larger apparatus goes.  I'm also quite sure the smaller units can respond quicker in most cases.  Depending on how they changed manning and response criteria it may be a good move.  If they took a five main engine company he had made it a three main engine company and a two man rescue company but they both responded together for structural calls it may work OK.  Otherwise it goes back to the problem of having insufficient Manpower available in the initial attack.

[nfd2004]

In regards to Syracuse wasn't their mini/max concept based on mini pumpers with the other engine component Hendrickson/Pierce tele-squrts and Sutphen tower ladders

  You are correct Grump. And there was also a Mini-Maxi rescue company. I don't know how long that lasted but I also know that the City of Rochester, shorly after, came out with the Midi Concept. I just don't remember the details on how it worked.

  And during a very heavy blizzard,  the City of Buffalo, used Mini Pumpers with four wheel drive to respond to many of their calls. Firehouse Magazine did a story on it and how they were so useful during that heavy snow. The following year, The famous Blizzard of '78 hit the northeast part of the country and a few cities had followed Buffalos footsteps with the use of four wheel drive mini pumpers.

[Bulldog]

  You are correct Grump. And there was also a Mini-Maxi rescue company. I don't know how long that lasted but I also know that the City of Rochester, shorly after, came out with the Midi Concept. I just don't remember the details on how it worked.

Rochester basically paired a midi pumper with a quint as a two piece unit.  The midi's had a two man cab and responded to just about every call for the station.  Both units went for structural calls.  They are presently converting back to a conventional engine/truck configuration.  Like most other cities they are facing manpower reductions and are shuttering some stations and have eliminated one battalion chief (used to have four per shift) and some other administrative positions.

[erfd323]

Since Rochester NY is in my neck of the woods, I have a little to add to the Q/M info. As of January 18th of this year, it is totally dead. In its heyday, there were 9 Quint and midi companies, and 8 regular engine companies. Today we have 13 Engine companies and only 6 Truck companies( 5 running with the former 100' E-One quints and one 95' E-One tower(with a pump). No firehouses have closed recently. The only one that closed in the last 7-8 years was condemned by the City and the Engine was moved to the Towers house about 1.5 miles away. They did eliminate the Safety Officers position
late last year,(only manned if there was someone available) but as of the 1st of this month, it was reinstated full time.