Author Topic: FD ITEMS ON E BAY.  (Read 78957 times)

Offline 68jk09

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Re: FD ITEMS ON E BAY.
« Reply #195 on: March 09, 2016, 04:21:22 AM »
Not trying to convince or sell you anything ...just want the Alarm Boxes in my city to be operational.

Nycfire.net

Re: FD ITEMS ON E BAY.
« Reply #195 on: March 09, 2016, 04:21:22 AM »

Offline JOR176

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Re: FD ITEMS ON E BAY.
« Reply #196 on: March 09, 2016, 08:50:56 AM »
Not trying to convince or sell you anything ...just want the Alarm Boxes in my city to be operational.

AMEN   Chief.

Offline FDNYTRUCKScom

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Re: FD ITEMS ON E BAY.
« Reply #197 on: March 09, 2016, 07:32:45 PM »
the guy with 6000+ feedbacks isnt a rich collector...  just someone who knows what this stuff is...

Offline wolff

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Re: FD ITEMS ON E BAY.
« Reply #198 on: March 26, 2016, 02:51:04 AM »
the guy with 6000+ feedbacks isnt a rich collector...  just someone who knows what this stuff is...

Well if you look at his feedback profile he bid on like 150 items in the last 30 days all in the one category, that's a rich, big time collector, or else someone planning to open up a store with inventory! He paid over $1200 for one inner box followed by a few other high ticket items in rapid succession,  you'd have to have plenty of money to afford a buying spree like that and bid on 150 different items in 30 days, I see his bids on almost everything, including a couple of items I outbid him on :)

Offline FDNYTRUCKScom

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Re: FD ITEMS ON E BAY.
« Reply #199 on: March 26, 2016, 04:41:32 PM »
maybe the guy knows his stuff...   


picked up this beauty for 300.00 yesterday and it works flawlessly. I have a bunch of hinges to pick from to put on it. It will go nice on my VF post.     someone paid 1578.00 for the same one yesterday!!   damn!

Offline wolff

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Re: FD ITEMS ON E BAY.
« Reply #200 on: March 29, 2016, 11:14:30 PM »
Nice find, congrats!
I'm the one who bought the other door, first one I've ever seen come up for sale anywhere, and the bidding was fast and furious and I'm glad to get the door, I had an $1800 bid in on it so essentially I made sure no one else was going to out bid me on that :)

  3378 was only 6 blocks away from the pedestal I owned in 1980 with the same door- #3393.

3378 will go on my pedestal I bought last summer  (#4788) that I had installed a "peek-a-boo" door on to replace the electronic plate it had,  I wasn't happy with how the guard on that style is so jammed up close to the spade handle that you can't get your fingers over the top of the handle but have to grab it from underside. The 2 coil springs they used on this guard were really poor, they have a couple of holes the ends fit into to hold them in place but they don't want to stay there and they didn't work well at all, so I left the springs out.

I get the impression the guard is a jury rigged add-on since they are held on with 4 machine screws from the back and if the guard is removed the door is a typical spade handle door. I don't know if they made the doors this way specifically with the peek-a-boo guard, or if they were all add-ons to existing doors, or a combo of both.

 The later, larger guarded style with the lock on the left requires drilling and tapping 2 machine screws in the cast iron shell for the lock catch, which I didn't want to do.
Then this double action door appeared and it has the same 3 holes per hinge bolt pattern my pedestal has.

Now I'll probably  machine another new code wheel for the this, but now for the 3378 door plate since I doubt the two door plates' 4 mounting pin holes match up so perfectly they would just swop out, and I don't want to start drilling new holes in an antique casting.
 Making the  code wheel to match the door plate and fit the Stewart Steel movement will be better.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2016, 11:22:18 PM by wolff »

Offline wolff

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Re: FD ITEMS ON E BAY.
« Reply #201 on: March 30, 2016, 01:45:33 AM »
Figure 6
« Last Edit: March 30, 2016, 01:50:25 AM by wolff »

Offline wolff

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Re: FD ITEMS ON E BAY.
« Reply #202 on: March 30, 2016, 01:56:53 AM »
I believe these 4 doors are in the order they appeared on the streets,, with the left door being the original 1929 door, what I'll call  first generation doors, followed by it's replacement the plain spade handle door- second generation, which was replaced by the peek-a-boo door (retrofitted guard?)  the third generation, and lastly by the larger guard whose casting was specifically made for the guard, the change required relocating the lock to the left side, which meant every VF pedestal with it had to have the lock catch installed with 2 machine screws.

The base appears to have been reused from the older design, and they changed the upper half with the 1929 model.

Offline wolff

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Re: FD ITEMS ON E BAY.
« Reply #203 on: March 30, 2016, 09:26:53 PM »
plate 4 & 2
« Last Edit: March 31, 2016, 09:01:14 PM by wolff »

Offline FDNYTRUCKScom

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Re: FD ITEMS ON E BAY.
« Reply #204 on: March 31, 2016, 09:09:53 PM »
the peekaboo was a quick retrofit so as to make it a "double action" to pull an alarm.   many of them were not done particularly neat, as nobody really cared, as long as it worked.  I redid three of them, filling in the holes with steel stik, and redrilling them properly.   the order of doors you show above is correct.   I had a snipe of a little over 2000. on the keyless door.  fortunately the other one showed up and I cancelled the snipe bid.

Offline wolff

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Re: FD ITEMS ON E BAY.
« Reply #205 on: April 01, 2016, 12:34:26 AM »
the peekaboo was a quick retrofit so as to make it a "double action" to pull an alarm.   many of them were not done particularly neat, as nobody really cared, as long as it worked.  I redid three of them, filling in the holes with steel stik, and redrilling them properly.

That confirms what I suspected, it definitely has an "added-on" retrofit look to it and the 4 machine screws from the back were a good clue.
I'm guessing there was a jig of some kind used in the field to drill the hole pattern. The guard handle itself is a lot lighter weight than the later one.

Quote
  the order of doors you show above is correct. 

I kind of pieced together the order of the 4 doors from what I've seen and read and I was pretty sure it was right. So far I haven't seen any dates firmly associated with each door style, but it seemed like the original 1929 doors didn't stay long due to the issue with the local bell causing people to walk away thinking the alarm was sent in, I'm sure quite a few stayed around on some boxes for many years later, but I'm guessing around 1935-1940 the spade handle doors were being put in, and maybe by 1945 the peek-a-boo retrofits started, and by 1950 the larger integral guard with the lock moved to the side was put in.
A 1950 popular science magazine article has a VF pedestal featured inside and out and it's cover photo had that larger guard on the door which dates those to 1950 or before.

I actually like that style best, maybe because it was the one that I always saw on every box growing up as a kid in Greenwich Village in the 70s, the plain spade handle door I like the least, I have all 4 styles now.


Quote
I had a snipe of a little over 2000. on the keyless door.  fortunately the other one showed up and I cancelled the snipe bid.

Yeah, that's the thing with antiques, you never how many or few there are out there, or when one will come up for sale, and  alot of Ebay selelrs seem to think an item is "extremely rare" because they personally never saw one, but there could be thousands of an item just like it, and some farmer could have 100 sitting in his barn and dies and his family comes in and suddenly 100 of the things wind up on the market!

The door I got seems to be part of a fair sized collection that was being sold off by the family of an older father-in-law's collection that had been in storage probably for years, they don't even seem to know what he has and they are still digging out stuff to dispose of.

You lucked out with the cheaper door, but then you probably picked it up privately via word of mouth thru the grapevine, or at a physical fire antique type sale/trade/auction event etc., I don't go to those since I don't like long distance traveling so I'm not going to hop in my car and drive 600 miles to go to some antique fire equipment sale event is taking place.

The door I bought apparently the gear is worn a bit, the pedestal I had in 1980 was that way, if you turned the handle a little too fast it skipped teeth on the gear due to wear and play in the mechanism, since I have access to a machine shop and milling machines I can restore this one however it needs to be done so it works properly, the mechanism is pretty crude  to begin with, but until it gets here I think the hole the handle shaft goes through is probably worn and that is the cause of the malfunction, usually a bushing works for that type of issue.
I'm guessing the doors simply had a hole drilled in them for the shaft, no bushing or bearing was used and the shaft was wearing metal against metal every time the handle was used and no one ever greased or oiled that contact area too.

« Last Edit: April 01, 2016, 12:37:26 AM by wolff »

Offline wolff

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Re: FD ITEMS ON E BAY.
« Reply #206 on: April 01, 2016, 12:47:43 AM »
From the Faraday catalogue 1928 they show a spade handle door on a common "O'Brien" style lamp post mounted box,  but I've never seen a Faraday box in NYC, certainly not as pictured with that large oval "FARADAY" logo or the name on the bottom, could be some of that was just for the illustrations.
The inside of the door with the bell looks identical to what I have and have seen, and it looks like they offered a choice of cast iron and aluminum for the shells, I've only seen the aluminum ones.

Offline FDNYTRUCKScom

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Re: FD ITEMS ON E BAY.
« Reply #207 on: April 01, 2016, 12:36:38 PM »
no.  I got the door on ebay.  buy it now... 

Offline wolff

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Re: FD ITEMS ON E BAY.
« Reply #208 on: April 01, 2016, 04:10:22 PM »
no.  I got the door on ebay.  buy it now...

Oh boy, a seller who had no clue or idea! I've wound up with a few really good items that way in recent months, especially people who go to estate sales and garage sales and seem to buy a truckload of junk to resell and they put arbitrary prices on the stuff because they have no idea or time to research every item.
When you look at their other items for sale you just find a crapload of unrelated junk, baby strollers, microwave ovens, old prints, china etc. and their pages often mention something about the item coming from "an estate sale" and that they don't know if the item is complete, works etc.
The ones I like are those who claim "100% original and complete" and you look at the photos, of say, a door for one of the pole mounted FDNY boxes, and you can clearly see the missing door bell and windup mechanism and where the mounting screw holes are and it should be obvious to anyone that something was attached there, and it isn't now, so it's NOT "100% original and complete."

I received my 3 recent purchases today, all looks good. The double action doors' gear does have tooth wear as does the  escapement's 2 teeth, it looked like they were not in alignment for many years as the escapement wore the edges of the teeth at a slight angle. The two parts were not parallel with one another for many years as well, so the wear left a small amount of metal intact on the face edge, but I believe after I  tape out the pin in the handle shaft and take it apart and clean it up I'll have a better idea what I need to do.
Adding metal on the escapement likely won't be a good fix since the gear's teeth are worn.

The escapement turned out to be aluminum, looked like nickel plated brass but it's not.

I can machine a new escapement if I had to, the large gear could be done but a lot more involved, it's going to be a project and it will probably find a place on some pages in the book I'm writing too.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2016, 02:35:39 AM by wolff »

Offline 68jk09

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Re: FD ITEMS ON E BAY.
« Reply #209 on: April 29, 2016, 03:45:32 PM »