Author Topic: Runs & Workers 2012  (Read 14168 times)

Offline Charging in 113

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Re: Runs & Workers 2012
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2013, 04:15:20 PM »
I know this is a old post but I want to say that the 38 battalion was a hot spot for fire duty last year especially the trucks   

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Re: Runs & Workers 2012
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2013, 04:15:20 PM »

Offline scamall dubh

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Re: Runs & Workers 2012
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2013, 05:23:00 PM »
I know this is a old post but I want to say that the 38 battalion was a hot spot for fire duty last year especially the trucks





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Offline blzdp

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Re: Runs & Workers 2012
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2013, 10:44:51 PM »
Very funny ;D

Offline 3511

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Re: Runs & Workers 2012
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2013, 05:10:46 PM »
Chargin in 113,

You are correct, those BN 38 ladders do a lot of work. Probably stay that way until the neighborhoods come back. And there's another reason for it. There are a lot of single engine companies in Brooklyn.

Brooklyn's ratio of engines to trucks (E/T) approximates the FDNY traditional of 3/2 (61 E's, 39T's).  By comparison, up in the Bronx the ratio is almost 1/1 (30E/27T). Makes a difference.

There are only three single engines in the Bronx but 23 in Brooklyn. Bronx ladders run mostly the same due as their partner engine. In Brooklyn, ladders can go 1st, 2d or 3d due on a box where their engine doesn't go at all. That provides a lot more opportunities for the trucks to go to work.

The reason the ratios differ is that the Bronx was beefed up with truck companies during the War Years of the late 60's, early 70's, and all but one (L17-2) remain in service.

One could argue that the Bronx workload is actually higher and more spread out through the borough. 67% of Bronx engines (20/30) did more than 3800 runs  in 2012. That's better than 10 runs per day. In Brooklyn, its only 15% (9/61). (I am not counting squads.) That explains why Bronx engines disproportionately hog the top 50 list. Overall, they run more than Brooklyn.

I am taking nothing from the Brooklyn truckies. They do the work and deserve the credit. Just be careful with that machine dubh sent you.
 
« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 06:24:08 PM by 3511 »

Offline nfd2004

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Re: Runs & Workers 2012
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2013, 07:58:32 AM »
 "3511", we were discussing that very same subject at our most recent Get Together. I never gave that any thought, but that is a fact.

 Another thing we were discussing is Engine 290. They have a very large first due response area. They are always at the top. They certainly deserve credit for the number of times they go out the door. Nobody can take that away from them. They've been at the top for as long as I can remember. But the reason being, they cover such a large area.

  We were also discussing how over the years, some companies continue to be at the top for decades. Engine 75/Ladder 33 for an example. Their runs and workers started to pick up sometime in the early to mid 70s. Since then, it's been a steady pace.

Offline scamall dubh

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Re: Runs & Workers 2012
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2013, 09:32:46 AM »
"3511", we were discussing that very same subject at our most recent Get Together. I never gave that any thought, but that is a fact.

 Another thing we were discussing is Engine 290. They have a very large first due response area. They are always at the top. They certainly deserve credit for the number of times they go out the door. Nobody can take that away from them. They've been at the top for as long as I can remember. But the reason being, they cover such a large area.

  We were also discussing how over the years, some companies continue to be at the top for decades. Engine 75/Ladder 33 for an example. Their runs and workers started to pick up sometime in the early to mid 70s. Since then, it's been a steady pace.

E92/L44 have been in the top 20 since 1974.

Offline nfd2004

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Re: Runs & Workers 2012
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2013, 12:16:32 PM »
"3511", we were discussing that very same subject at our most recent Get Together. I never gave that any thought, but that is a fact.

 Another thing we were discussing is Engine 290. They have a very large first due response area. They are always at the top. They certainly deserve credit for the number of times they go out the door. Nobody can take that away from them. They've been at the top for as long as I can remember. But the reason being, they cover such a large area.

  We were also discussing how over the years, some companies continue to be at the top for decades. Engine 75/Ladder 33 for an example. Their runs and workers started to pick up sometime in the early to mid 70s. Since then, it's been a steady pace.

E92/L44 have been in the top 20 since 1974.

   You are exactly right. And as a buff, I studied the runs and workers, and my favorite buff area was E92/L44. Whether I was on the street near Mt Eden and Morris or the Micky Ds on Webster near Clairmont. I saw 92/44 first due in on a lot of activity. (Sherman, Sheriden, Echo, Marcy and on and on).

Offline STAjo

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Re: Runs & Workers 2012
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2013, 02:54:40 PM »
"3511", we were discussing that very same subject at our most recent Get Together. I never gave that any thought, but that is a fact.

 Another thing we were discussing is Engine 290. They have a very large first due response area. They are always at the top. They certainly deserve credit for the number of times they go out the door. Nobody can take that away from them. They've been at the top for as long as I can remember. But the reason being, they cover such a large area.

  We were also discussing how over the years, some companies continue to be at the top for decades. Engine 75/Ladder 33 for an example. Their runs and workers started to pick up sometime in the early to mid 70s. Since then, it's been a steady pace.

E92/L44 have been in the top 20 since 1974.

   You are exactly right. And as a buff, I studied the runs and workers, and my favorite buff area was E92/L44. Whether I was on the street near Mt Eden and Morris or the Micky Ds on Webster near Clairmont. I saw 92/44 first due in on a lot of activity. (Sherman, Sheriden, Echo, Marcy and on and on).

o.k., now i'm completely Confused... ??? i thought Eng. 255, L.157, Eng. 248 were Recently high on da' R&W List...?

Offline JOR176

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Re: Runs & Workers 2012
« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2013, 09:46:12 PM »
A good parameter is the amount of Boxes the 38th Bn has compared to the other Bn's, when I get back to my own computer I will look at the amt's for the busy Bn's, also the Engs & Trucks, then you all could have fun with the decifering of the info, LOL.

Offline STAjo

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Re: Runs & Workers 2012
« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2013, 10:05:26 PM »
A good parameter is the amount of Boxes the 38th Bn has compared to the other Bn's, when I get back to my own computer I will look at the amt's for the busy Bn's, also the Engs & Trucks, then you all could have fun with the decifering of the info, LOL.

Outstanding ! TY, Sir !  ;) staj.

Um what about da' 41 ?
« Last Edit: October 25, 2013, 10:07:07 PM by STAjo »

Offline Rodent251

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Re: Runs & Workers 2012
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2013, 11:42:33 AM »
A good parameter is the amount of Boxes the 38th Bn has compared to the other Bn's, when I get back to my own computer I will look at the amt's for the busy Bn's, also the Engs & Trucks, then you all could have fun with the decifering of the info, LOL.

Dont forget that info JOR176...
If nothing changes, everything will stay the same..

Offline Rodent251

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Re: Runs & Workers 2012
« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2013, 09:32:26 PM »
Further to what has already been said on this thread, a good way to guage how busy a company is for actual working fires, is to view a record or log of how often an engine company stretches a line, or a truck puts its ladder up.

Having said that,  im aware that busy engines such as E75 and E290 get quite a few trash fires, or fires in the street, which ofcourse may involve stretching a line to extinguish.

But harking back to the good old days of the 70s and 80s, when companies such as E58, saw trash can fires in and around  thier first due district on an almost hourly basis. That old beaten up lime green mack on a cold winters day stretching its booster line on the sidewalk, with the locals and the vagrants stood around watching and waiting for the company to go, just to drag out another trashcan or light up another pile of trash or rubber to stay warm...I think the closest we have to that in the modern day new age FDNY is indeed E290... Yes a large response area.. But boy what an area.

JT
If nothing changes, everything will stay the same..

Offline nfd2004

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Re: Runs & Workers 2012
« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2013, 08:22:25 AM »
 The amount of fire activity for ANY city is hard to compare with the fire activity in any city now. And not only building fires, but every other kind of fire. Car fires, rubbish fires, dumpster fires, even brush fires, everything was burning during those years. Maybe not in NYC but in other cities around, a busy engine company was doing 1,000 - 1,500 runs a year. But usually when they went out the door, they were putting water on some kind of fires.

  Most didn't respond to the amount of medical calls or fire alarms as they do today. There wasn't the amount of battery operated smoke detectors like there is today. A fire could spread before somebody knew about it.

  Cell phones have also changed things for reporting fires. At the first sign of a fire, most people will call it in. No more looking for a pay phone or fire box on the corner. It's pretty rare today that a fire gets a good head start.

  Fire Investigations have come a long way from those 70s and 80s.

  In the 70s/80s, going to just about any city, at least here in the northeast, there was a building fire. Not counting the FDNY, I could go to Newark, Boston, Bridgeport or Providence and see a fire.

  Over the last three years, the busiest city for Working Fires has been New Haven in Connecticut. During that 3/4 year period, that city has the record of 77 Working Fires (10-75s or greater) for the entire state. But their War Years today are not the fires. Recently they went to a shooting where six people were shot. It's a different kind of War Years.

  During one year in the mid 80s, Bridgeports (a similiar sized city) record was 751 Working Fires. Last year they had about 70 jobs.

  For most places today, instead of the companies going to those trash can fires in the street, they are going to a seizure in the street. As I see it today, the FDNY isn't much different.

Offline mack

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Re: Runs & Workers 2012
« Reply #28 on: November 07, 2013, 10:48:54 AM »
You can try to compare R&Ws today with activity 40 years ago - and it is comparing apples to oranges.  It is that different. 

     Definitions and rules - what is a run?  what is a worker? who gets credit when relocating? does a run count when you get a ticket and it is cancelled 30 seconds later?
     Accountability - now you get a computer ticket...automatic accountability...back then you kept track on a piece of paper...many runs were never even counted
     EMS runs - high percentage of runs today... often much more difficult than simple garbage fires...todays FFs have to roll out of bed, access patient, immediately perform life-saving steps as EMTs and medics...1st due cardiac runs are a lot different than "unknown medical" runs
     10-75s vs the old "fill out the box" or old 10-30 signals - many more companies pick up runs for working fires, even small working fires, because of availability today
     multiples today vs then - I believe many 2nd alarms today would have been 2&2 or maybe all hands back then...many "all hands today would have been 2&2s back then
     FAST or RIT assignments - did not exist back then...chiefs often kept an engine or truck in reserve if they could, but there were limited assets
     HAZ-MAT responses - units did wash downs after accidents but environmental awareness was different and terrorist threat did not exist
     Automatic alarms - many calls today to check out automatic alarms...Class 3 responses back then
     MFAs or 10-92s - still a factor with runs but usually a reduced response...back then countless false alarms with 3&2 or 2&2 response with chief
     Salvage - back then the NYFP was very active providing salvage and other services...Model Cities salvage units too...today extra truck work when special called for salvage operations

Things change.  Actual fires are significantly reduced with better construction, better manufacturing, detectors, survellience, insurance changes, less manufacturing, arson investigation, fire prevention programs, elimination or destruction of old city neighborhoods built in the 1800s, new entertainment venues for kids whc etc.

But the demands of FFs today are increased with EMS, HAZ-MAT etc.

Different eras.  Numbers don't tell it all.  Difficult job today.  But the "War Years" will always stand out as a remarkable firefighting era with exceptional, dedicated FFs

Offline JOR176

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Re: Runs & Workers 2012
« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2013, 11:35:45 AM »
A good parameter is the amount of Boxes the 38th Bn has compared to the other Bn's, when I get back to my own computer I will look at the amt's for the busy Bn's, also the Engs & Trucks, then you all could have fun with the decifering of the info, LOL.

The following list consists of just the 1st due Street Boxes not the Subway nor the 8000 series (Class 3's)
28-- 334       37-- 121      42-- 320     58-- 460
31-- 207       38-- 131      43-- 244
32-- 196       39-- 581      44-- 250
33-- 481       40-- 334      48-- 217
35-- 272       41-- 286      57-- 166

The 28 Bn & The 39 Bn   have the Queens assignments included as they are both 1st due in Queens.

I will do the BX next

Jack O'

 

anything