My younger Buff years

[nfd2004]

My interest/fascination/obsession with the War Years has led/driven me over the past 10 years or so to create a crude but pretty accurate computer simulation of the Bronx CO fire activity.  It's based on 1972 numbers (hence my handle) and despite not having a list of actual alarms (long since tossed out), I can generate boxes, call types, and times with a couple of keystrokes.  You have to play decision dispatcher using about 200 run cards which group some 2400 boxes in Bronx and Upper Manhattan. Tracks dispatch time, travel time to the box plus time worked.  You can get pretty overwhelmed with all the calls!  Still testing it and trying to believe that what it generates could possibly have happened.  I can program it to make some boxes and areas busier than others.  So, your input is valuable!

  Most people may not know this, but Rob "Bronx72" and I are good friends. I have seen the computer set up he is talking about. I am totally amazed at the amount of work he has put into this over the last ten years. It is our hope to get together soon with a few veterns of that era, show them this program, and get feedback from the people who were there during these extermely busy years for the FDNY. I had nothing to do with this computer program at all. He did this all on his own, long before I met him.

  Some of us are planning to get together soon for Rob to demonstrate this. If you were around in those days and might be interested in joining us, you certainly are welcomed. Rob is interested in any feedback. Just send me a "PM" if you think you might have something to offer. We haven't set a date yet.

  (And I still hope a movie is next....any producers out there interested in telling this story)

[mack]

Thanks Guitarman for the assignment card posts.

Another memory - I remember sitting in the kitchen - bells started to tap out a box (everyone started mentally counting) and often the comment from a senior guy - "that's a bad box" or "that's a good box" (meant the same thing).   Sometimes the proby would then ease out of the room to listen to the department radio at the housewatch desk, especially if the all hands followed. 

Even companies in less busy areas had several "bad boxes" in their response district although not close to the fire activity associated with the infamous boxes mentioned.  Back in the 60s and 70s, many units could be doing 4000 runs and they did not even dent the top 25 R&W lists each year. Loss of a even a few boxes to another engine, truck or battalion could reduce responses noticeably.

[nfd2004]

Box 2723

Walton Ave & East Clarke Pl.

One of the busiest Bronx boxes in the 80's and early 90's.

  I know exactly what you mean by Box 2723 being one of the busiest Bronx boxes of the 80s and 90s. As a buff during that time, I would sit on Teller Ave near 171 St at Clairmont Park. Or at the McDonalds on Webster Ave near Clairmont Ave. I couldn't tell you how many times I headed over to East Clarke Pl. from there. There was a lot of work there for such a small street. Just off the top of my head, another one was Marcy Pl. and also Echo Pl. Small streets but plenty of fire.

  I remember one night I was parked at my buff site and around midnight my buddy and I were just getting ready to head home. A job comes in for a taxpayer on Grand Course and East Clark Pl. (I think). We followed Ladder 44 into the job as the  first due Truck. The place was rolling. It was one of those jobs where as a buff, it was the right place, and at the right time. I remember standing in the middle of the Grand Concourse, which for those who don't know, is a very wide six lane street. I could feel the heat from that distance. I think it went to a Second Alarm.

  And that was one of those mornings when I got home as my wife was getting ready to go to work. All she said was "go take a shower, you stink" (from the smoke).

  But for awhile during the 80s and 90s, that East Clarke Pl was a pretty busy little steet when it came to fire activity.

[nfd2004]

How many people today would believe that there were parts of New York City where on almost a regular basis you could see two or three columns of smoke rising from working fires all within a mile or so of each other. Or that there would be a fully involved car fire and nobody could respond to put it out. Or you could see a vacant five story muliple dwelling, fully involved, and the chief reports he's using two engines and two trucks.

  Who would believe today that a dispatcher would ask for any available engine or truck in the South Bronx to respond to an occupied building fire and maybe get somebody from the North Bronx to respond first due. Or that you could ride down blocks and see nothing but empty burned out buildings. Or try to find a decent place to eat or grab a quick coffee with no success for miles.

   Fire companies would go from one fire to the next as just a matter of routine business. There wasn't anybody who could respond as a FAST Truck. Companies didn't do EMS runs, yet they would still make 20 runs a night and fight four or five working fires.

   Who would believe today that many companies would be eating their evening meal at 2 or 3 O'Clock in the morning. Who would believe that even firefighters from some of our busiest cities would want to learn from these busy New York City Firefighters.

  After seeing some of this, who would believe that you were still in a civilized world and not some Third World Country.

  Today most likely the only ones to believe what went on there are the people who were a part of it or saw it for themselves. It goes way beyond trying to explain it. No words, even this entire thread from the very first page, can tell the story of what those FDNY firefighters faced. Those FDNY War Years Firefighters really were the Greatest Generation of Firefighters. If there ever was a group of firefighters that were "Miracle Workers"...., "these were the guys".

   

[mack]

Man Alive - Bronx is Burning - the way it was:

Man Alive: The Bronx Is Burning (Part 1 of 4) FDNY 1972

Man Alive The Bronx Is Burning (Part 2 of 4) FDNY 1972 - YouTube.flv

Man Alive: The Bronx Is Burning (Part 3 of 4) FDNY 1972

Man Alive: The Bronx Is Burning (Part 4 of 4) FDNY 1972

Watching these videos makes you realize how much has changed in 40 years:  turn-out gear, engine and truck manning, Voice Alarm, uniforms, tillers, riding apparatus  ........

Yet so much still remains the same - interrupted meals, frustrations, firefighters who answer the call ........

[johnd248]

You also realize exactly how old Willy really is.  LOL

[raybrag]

What scares me is that I'm even older than Willy is . . .

[nfd2004]

Man Alive - Bronx is Burning - the way it was:


Man Alive: The Bronx Is Burning (Part 1 of 4) FDNY 1972
Man Alive The Bronx Is Burning (Part 2 of 4) FDNY 1972 - YouTube.flv
Man Alive: The Bronx Is Burning (Part 3 of 4) FDNY 1972
Man Alive: The Bronx Is Burning (Part 4 of 4) FDNY 1972

Watching these videos makes you realize how much has changed in 40 years:  turn-out gear, engine and truck manning, Voice Alarm, uniforms, tillers, riding apparatus  ........

Yet so much still remains the same - interrupted meals, frustrations, firefighters who answer the call ........

  Thanks "mack" for posting all four parts of this entire video. I know its on "r1s" site too, and I think he posted parts of it here. ("r1SmokeEater" has every video that ever came out on his site).

  For me as a buff, this is were it all began. From the very first post of this thread. When I walked into that firehouse on Intervale Ave near 169th St in the Bronx. I can remember it like it was yesterday. Walking into that firehouse at 3 am, and everybody having the evening meal. A couple of young kids who had been celebrating their 21st birthday together, who also wanted to be firefighters, were invited to join the members for the evening dinner at 3 am. Then they invited us to ride with them to a Fourth Alarm.

  My buddy, Timmy Oldroyd, who was with me that night also became a firefighter in Fairfield, Ct. He injuried his back and tried working as the dept mechanic but he was also unable to do that. He was later forced to get off the job that he loved doing. Like many other firefighters are forced to do before their careers are over.  I believe he now lives in the Tampa, Fla area. We were very good friends and born on the same day. We were also vollies together (you remember him "Johnny D." ?)

  But for me, seeing that video is a clear picture of what I got to see for myself. I had never seen blocks of burned out buildings before. I had never seen two fires going on in the same neighborhood at the same time. I had never seen how a well organized attack of a hose line being put into operation and ventilation being done effectively. I had never seen neighborhoods go from bad to worse. I had never seen firefighters fight so many fires in one shift.

  It taught me a lot. I learned that fires represent a society in trouble. I learned that people would set fires for a profit, or for a pay back, or even young kids setting them as a form of recreation. I learned that not everybody wanted the fire dept to show up and sometimes would throw things at them.

  I rode Rescue 2 as a teenage kid. I certainly was impressed. Then I chased my first calls in Harlem. They were some Great companies. But when I walked into this South Bronx area then, it was a world that most people in America never knew existed.

[nfd2004]

  One day while in my local library, I noticed something on a magazine about "The Busiest Firehouse in the World". I think at the time it was called "True Magazine". It said that a book would be coming out called "Report from Engine Co 82" and that it was written by a New York City Firefighter named Dennis Smith. It said that this company was in The Bronx, NY on Intervale Ave. and did over 10,000 calls the year before. When I got there I saw that I wasn"t the only one. About twenty cars were all parked across the street from the firehouse. Each car had three to four buffs in it. Guys from The City, New Jersey, Connecticut, and Long Island. Everybody had a scanner. The area looked much worse than what I had seen in Harlem.
  There was a small grocery store across the street from the firehouse called "Angie"s Market". Angie sure didn"t mind the buffs hanging out in front of her store because Angie made a fortune supplying the buffs with their goodies. Hard to believe, but there were no McDonald's, Wendy"s, Dunkin Donuts around then. Not for miles. Maybe not even in the Bronx. If there were, we sure didn"t know about them. In fact, Angie's Market was probadly the only store left in the area making a profit.

  The other day I was talking to Frank D (fdce54 on here). Since I started writing "My Younger Buff Years", Frank is one of the guys that I have become very good friends with through this web site. As many of us may know, Frank is a supervisor with Con Ed, and grew up in the busier areas of the Bronx. He hopes to retire soon and do nothing but spend his time reading and writing articles on here, like many of us now do. Maybe watch alittle TV too.

  But anyway, Frank told me a little story that pertains to the above quote. Frank was on a job for Con Ed and got talking to the home owner. The guy said that he was a retired FDNY Firefighter. Along with that, Frank saw a picture that this member had taken while working at that firehouse on Intervale Ave. It was taken looking across the street towards Angies Market. There was a Large crowd in that picture. Frank asked the guy (retired member) if there was a street fight going on or something. That Retired FDNY Firefighter said; "No, that Large Crowd is a picture of the many Buffs that used to hang out there every night".

  Yes Frank, I remember it well. Those were quite the days.

 

[mack]

Bill - I thought about your post - the picture  taken across the street from the firehouse - all the cars with buffs - scanners waiting for jobs to hit.  I recognize that many fires drew neighborhood crowds here or there back then.  False alarms were also a source of entertainment for kids.  But what is most ironic about the image of a group of buffs viewing the many working fires which were destroying neighborhoods is that most of the countless fires that were burning up block after block, 24 hours a day, were usually ignored by people who lived there.  People would walk by a burning tenament and not even notice what was happening.  Kids were so used to fires that they would continue to play across the street while companies responded in, lines were being stretched,tower ladders put into operation.  Maybe they would climb over the rigs at times, but for the most part, they didn't care.  No one did.  Think about how few pictures were taken of the countless fires. No TV news teams.  No stories in the newspapers.  No police lines.  No cops.  No one cared.  Except the firefighters and the buffs who parked across the street. 

[nfd2004]

"mack" you are so Correct. You are right. NOBODY Cared. What went on in just a few square blocks of not only the South Bronx but Harlem, the Lower East Side in Alphabet City...Ave "A", "B", "C", "D", Bed Sty, Bushwick, Brownsville, even Coney Island where streets like Neptune Ave, Surf Ave, Mermaid Ave, saw a steady flow of Heavy Fire Activity.

  Just a few blocks of anyone of those neighborhoods and the activity then could make the headlines in most newspapers today. But that didn't happen. Instead these problems were just hidden away. And the fires just kept burning. Day after day, week after week, every hour, year after year. And city blocks by city blocks.

  The way it was going, I thought it would Never end. One neighborhood would burn down and another one would start to burn. The runs and workers showed that. As Engine 82 started to slow down, because there just wasn't much left to burn, Engine 92 started to pick up, then maybe Eng 48, and Eng 88, then maybe Eng 75.

  "mikeindabronx" and I were talking the other day. We were talking about a large vacant factory/warehouse at the southern most tip of Webster Ave near 163rd St. Somewhere in that area. Both of us saw NUMEROUS JOBS in just that one building. And I wasn't there most of the days to buff. How many more did they have there that I missed. Today, I believe that might be a Days Inn Motel. It's advertized as close to Yankee Stadium. Who would believe that 30 or 40 years ago.

[mack]

From "Coney Island Lost and Found" by Charles Denson":

"Coney Island began burning in 1965, and the fires continues for the next decade.  Most were arson.  Fires became so commonplace that children no longer stopped what they were doing to watch.  During the early 1970s, I can't recall a day going by that I didn't witness a major fire. Fires were burning when I left for school and when I returned home.  I took photographs here between 1969 and 1974.  In 1970, some local kids found a way to climb into the attic of the Boardwalk pavilion at West Twenty-ninth Street.  They wanted to show me the clubhouse they'd built.  I climbed through a trapdoor and found the space illuminated by dozens of candles.  It looked like a church altar.  I told them it didn't look safe, and they laughed.  A few days later the old pavilion was gone."   

[guitarman314]

"mack" you are so Correct. You are right. NOBODY Cared. What went on in just a few square blocks of not only the South Bronx but Harlem, the Lower East Side in Alphabet City...Ave "A", "B", "C", "D", Bed Sty, Bushwick, Brownsville, even Coney Island where streets like Neptune Ave, Surf Ave, Mermaid Ave, saw a steady flow of Heavy Fire Activity.

  Just a few blocks of anyone of those neighborhoods and the activity then could make the headlines in most newspapers today. But that didn't happen. Instead these problems were just hidden away. And the fires just kept burning. Day after day, week after week, every hour, year after year. And city blocks by city blocks.

  The way it was going, I thought it would Never end. One neighborhood would burn down and another one would start to burn. The runs and workers showed that. As Engine 82 started to slow down, because there just wasn't much left to burn, Engine 92 started to pick up, then maybe Eng 48, and Eng 88, then maybe Eng 75.

  "mikeindabronx" and I were talking the other day. We were talking about a large vacant factory/warehouse at the southern most tip of Webster Ave near 163rd St. Somewhere in that area. Both of us saw NUMEROUS JOBS in just that one building. And I wasn't there most of the days to buff. How many more did they have there that I missed. Today, I believe that might be a Days Inn Motel. It's advertized as close to Yankee Stadium. Who would believe that 30 or 40 years ago.

Believe it or not, the last time I drove through there, that large mill style warehouse where Melrose and Webster both meet was still standing. Some buildings survived multiple major fires, eg: 500 Southern Blvd., 800 Fox St., and 454 E. 147th St. just to name a couple.   

[nfd2004]

"mack" you are so Correct. You are right. NOBODY Cared. What went on in just a few square blocks of not only the South Bronx but Harlem, the Lower East Side in Alphabet City...Ave "A", "B", "C", "D", Bed Sty, Bushwick, Brownsville, even Coney Island where streets like Neptune Ave, Surf Ave, Mermaid Ave, saw a steady flow of Heavy Fire Activity.

  Just a few blocks of anyone of those neighborhoods and the activity then could make the headlines in most newspapers today. But that didn't happen. Instead these problems were just hidden away. And the fires just kept burning. Day after day, week after week, every hour, year after year. And city blocks by city blocks.

  The way it was going, I thought it would Never end. One neighborhood would burn down and another one would start to burn. The runs and workers showed that. As Engine 82 started to slow down, because there just wasn't much left to burn, Engine 92 started to pick up, then maybe Eng 48, and Eng 88, then maybe Eng 75.

  "mikeindabronx" and I were talking the other day. We were talking about a large vacant factory/warehouse at the southern most tip of Webster Ave near 163rd St. Somewhere in that area. Both of us saw NUMEROUS JOBS in just that one building. And I wasn't there most of the days to buff. How many more did they have there that I missed. Today, I believe that might be a Days Inn Motel. It's advertized as close to Yankee Stadium. Who would believe that 30 or 40 years ago.

Believe it or not, the last time I drove through there, that large mill style warehouse where Melrose and Webster both meet was still standing. Some buildings survived multiple major fires, eg: 500 Southern Blvd., 800 Fox St., and 454 E. 147th St. just to name a couple.

  Thanks G-man. That's the place. You know the building I'm talking about. I think its been rehabbed and made into that Days Inn. Next time I'm down there I will check. I checked the Days Inn address in that area, and it is 997 Brook Ave, Bronx. I think that might be the building. There were so many fires in that place. Do you think that's the place "mikeindabronx" or "G-man" ?

[guitarman314]

Yes, there's nice color photo of it at the Fire Bell Club, the photo has Engine 41's 'red' 1970's Mack CF in front of the inferno