Author Topic: Heavy rescue out to bid  (Read 25695 times)

Offline Bulldog

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Re: Heavy rescue out to bid
« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2016, 11:42:22 AM »
Thank you 'Bull' and Ray. We apparently have been doing it wrong for all these years.
Mets, I think if you look at our other posts both Ray and I have great respect for FDNY and everything they do.  I just pointed out, and Ray supported me, that the rescue trucks are huge and that may be part of the problem with how they operate and their durability.
Mets:  How do you get that out of our comments? Have the rigs not been getting bigger and bigger?  Is there not more an more equipment added all the time?  Does that mean you've been doing it wrong?  Of course not.  Just means that maybe you need to think about just how big of a rig you can go with.  After all, they've increased the size of the squad & SSL 2nd pieces and HazMat is a 2-piece company.  Maybe . . . just maybe . . . they should think about rescues being 2-piece.  Got absolutely nothing to do with how you do your job.
Ray, thanks for your great reply!  I'm not sure how he got the idea that we were saying they were doing it wrong from either one of our comments.  As you mentioned they have added or increase the size of 2nd pieces for many other units because of the demand for more equipment.  The rescues are by far the biggest and definitely the heaviest because of the demands of the job, not how FDNY does the job.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2016, 11:47:13 AM by Bulldog »

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Re: Heavy rescue out to bid
« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2016, 11:42:22 AM »

Offline 69 METS

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Re: Heavy rescue out to bid
« Reply #31 on: February 26, 2016, 11:46:46 PM »
Thank you 'Bull' and Ray. We apparently have been doing it wrong for all these years.
Mets, I think if you look at our other posts both Ray and I have great respect for FDNY and everything they do.  I just pointed out, and Ray supported me, that the rescue trucks are huge and that may be part of the problem with how they operate and their durability.
Mets:  How do you get that out of our comments? Have the rigs not been getting bigger and bigger?  Is there not more an more equipment added all the time?  Does that mean you've been doing it wrong?  Of course not.  Just means that maybe you need to think about just how big of a rig you can go with.  After all, they've increased the size of the squad & SSL 2nd pieces and HazMat is a 2-piece company.  Maybe . . . just maybe . . . they should think about rescues being 2-piece.  Got absolutely nothing to do with how you do your job.
Ray, thanks for your great reply!  I'm not sure how he got the idea that we were saying they were doing it wrong from either one of our comments.  As you mentioned they have added or increase the size of 2nd pieces for many other units because of the demand for more equipment.  The rescues are by far the biggest and definitely the heaviest because of the demands of the job, not how FDNY does the job.


FYI: R-1, R-2, R-3, R-4 have had 2nd pieces for years (collapse rescue's carry all the equipment that can't be carried on the main piece.) R-5 has three pieces (in addition to their main rig they have a collapse rescue and a haz mat rig)  ... Never happen, Bull.  It makes too much sense. ...

Offline TLTruckie

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Re: Heavy rescue out to bid
« Reply #32 on: February 27, 2016, 10:49:28 PM »
Like already said , all the Rescue already have a second piece , the collapse rigs , which carry all the other stuff that can be carried on the main rig. To be honest, the Ferrares  have really held up very well ...yes there where issue when they where first put in service, remember these where really the first rigs built by Ferrara for the FDNY , growing pains. Once a lot of the initial issues where worked out the rigs have been pretty solid , the boxes are built like a tank and are VERY solid , the boxes on the old Saulsbury where literal coming apart by the seams, welds. A lot of the down time for them have been the results of the rigs involved in accident , cant blame Ferrara for that . Part of  the reason a few of the rigs have been OOS lately is because the rigs are coming up on 5 years and the shops want to get as much warrantee work done before it expires .

Yes, the new rigs can't get any bigger and still respond the way we do now.  All the Rescue are weighing in at a tad under 70,000 LBS , that a lot of weight for the distance they do respond .Most of the Rescues are doing over 3200 runs a year, covering many , many miles on some very harsh roads.  Rescue 4 rig is close to breaking 100k in miles !!  and I'm sure R-2 isn't much further behind.
And that's also why the Rescues are now on a 7 year replacement .

Offline JohnnyBopp

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Re: Heavy rescue out to bid
« Reply #33 on: March 01, 2016, 11:56:29 PM »

Ray, thanks for your great reply!  I'm not sure how he got the idea that we were saying they were doing it wrong from either one of our comments.  As you mentioned they have added or increase the size of 2nd pieces for many other units because of the demand for more equipment.  The rescues are by far the biggest and definitely the heaviest because of the demands of the job, not how FDNY does the job.

Just for reference, they're not the heaviest.  The Ferrara rearmounts tip the scales at 70,000lbs unloaded.  The 95ft TL are more like 90,000lbs and many are running way more than any Rescue.

Offline wwf45

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Re: Heavy rescue out to bid
« Reply #34 on: March 02, 2016, 06:44:49 AM »
I don't see how the Ferrara RMA's  could weight over 70,000lbs not equipped.  My department runs a 2008 105ft RMA , 2000gpm punp, 500gwt, 1000ft 5", and it only weight around 73,000 equipped!  How can the 95ft tower ladders wieght more than 90,000lbs??  Most states have a maximum vehicle GVW of 80,000lbs.

Offline 1261Truckie

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Re: Heavy rescue out to bid
« Reply #35 on: March 02, 2016, 11:39:46 AM »
I've been told it's the stainless steel bodies that add the weight

Offline JohnnyBopp

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Re: Heavy rescue out to bid
« Reply #36 on: March 02, 2016, 01:10:59 PM »
I don't see how the Ferrara RMA's  could weight over 70,000lbs not equipped.  My department runs a 2008 105ft RMA , 2000gpm punp, 500gwt, 1000ft 5", and it only weight around 73,000 equipped!  How can the 95ft tower ladders wieght more than 90,000lbs??  Most states have a maximum vehicle GVW of 80,000lbs.

I believe the builder plate says GVW is 68,000lbs....add 6 FF with gear and all the equiptment and you're well over 70 grand.  SS cabd and body.  That does it.  As for the TL, they're indeed up there in the 90's. 

Offline Bulldog

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Re: Heavy rescue out to bid
« Reply #37 on: March 02, 2016, 05:18:34 PM »
I believe the builder plate says GVW is 68,000lbs....add 6 FF with gear and all the equiptment and you're well over 70 grand.  SS cabd and body.  That does it.  As for the TL, they're indeed up there in the 90's.
GVW is actually the maximum allowable weight per the manufacturer including the weight of the vehicle, weight of any additional equipment and the weight of passengers.  So in this case weight that Ferrara recommends for these rescues is 68,000 pounds.  They actually are tipping the scales at 70,000 or more that could be part of the problem with their durability.

Offline raybrag

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Re: Heavy rescue out to bid
« Reply #38 on: March 02, 2016, 05:41:55 PM »
Can't say what Ferrara might say or do, but I had a situation when we owned a tree service company.  We bought a Mack Granite with a Prentice loader and large dump body to haul logs.  Had a rear axle break one day, and Mack refused to repair it under the warranty . . .  claimed we had loaded the truck beyond its GVW.  Also . . . the cops will cite you if they find you running a rig over its GVW. Of course, when was the last time you saw a fire truck stop for a truck weigh-in and inspection?  ::)
Ray Braguglia
Newport News VA


Offline BCR

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Re: Heavy rescue out to bid
« Reply #39 on: March 02, 2016, 07:45:29 PM »
There is probably a good chance that if the rigs are over there GVW that they have an overweight permit. It's not that the dot is gonna give a FD rig a problem it's if they get into an accident they will be liable if it's proven they are over weight, I'm sure with lawyers today that they have something covering them, after all I think it's like a dollar a pound for overweight. Yes I think that the standard max is 80,000 for standard over the road trucks however there are plenty of trucks out there running with permits in the 100-120,000 pound range. Look how a 95 scope or any scope for that matter is built, its more comparable to a crane than to your standard Ferrara tower or any other FD ladder. When these rigs are designed they are built or should be built to run at max GVW.

Offline sptruckie

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Re: Heavy rescue out to bid
« Reply #40 on: June 28, 2016, 12:46:21 PM »
Any news?

Offline jks19714

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Re: Heavy rescue out to bid
« Reply #41 on: June 28, 2016, 02:03:26 PM »
There is probably a good chance that if the rigs are over there GVW that they have an overweight permit. It's not that the dot is gonna give a FD rig a problem it's if they get into an accident they will be liable if it's proven they are over weight, I'm sure with lawyers today that they have something covering them, after all I think it's like a dollar a pound for overweight. Yes I think that the standard max is 80,000 for standard over the road trucks however there are plenty of trucks out there running with permits in the 100-120,000 pound range. Look how a 95 scope or any scope for that matter is built, its more comparable to a crane than to your standard Ferrara tower or any other FD ladder. When these rigs are designed they are built or should be built to run at max GVW.

One of the volunteer companies that I belonged to had a Mack CF Aerialscope with a single rear axle.  Every year, we took it to Baker in Richmond VA and had to get an overweight permit to get through the scales on I95.

Why we didn't get a dual rear axle was a question that I never got a straight answer to...  Great truck though!  Those were the days -- tower, three engines, rescue, all Macks. And we had a Mack service shop on the other side of town.

Offline TacSupport1

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Re: Heavy rescue out to bid
« Reply #42 on: January 23, 2017, 08:32:07 PM »

KME was the lowest bidder, followed by Ferrara and then Seagrave.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcas/downloads/pdf/ocp/1600252.pdf
Seth G.
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Offline XPFD3

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Re: Heavy rescue out to bid
« Reply #43 on: January 23, 2017, 10:17:23 PM »
So $1.7 million per if the order is for 5 ?

Offline fdny747

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Re: Heavy rescue out to bid
« Reply #44 on: February 16, 2017, 05:11:57 PM »
Has anyone seen any drawings of the new Rescues yet?