Author Topic: Major Incident at Concert at Manchester Arena - UK 5/22/2017  (Read 4837 times)

Offline mack

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Re: Major Incident at Concert at Manchester Arena - UK 5/22/2017
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2017, 08:13:34 AM »
There appears to be a recent/on-going confrontational history between the Manchester Fire Chief and the Manchester Fire Brigade union and members - and maybe this could have influenced the decision not to let near-by fire units respond to the bombing.  He has been attempting to significantly reduce the size of the Brigade (2nd largest in the UK) and change their work schedule to unpopular 12 hour shifts.  He claimed he was "ashamed to be a firefighter" last September when the fire union opposed reductions and work schedule changes. 


Manchester Evening News September 26, 2016:


"The region’s fire chief has apologised after a tweet saying he was ‘ashamed to be a firefighter’ angered crews.

Greater Manchester’s County Fire Officer, Pete O’Reilly, tweeted two messages on Saturday evening which firefighters say are linked to an ongoing bitter dispute over shift patterns.

He posted: “Tonight, for the first time in my career, I feel ashamed to be a firefighter - awful!”

Four minutes earlier he had posted: “All of us should be focused on the interests of the people we serve not ourselves.”

As revealed in the M.E.N. all uniformed staff in Greater Manchester Fire service could be made to reapply for their jobs.

Bosses at the emergency service have put all 1,017 firemen and women on notice and say it will be used as a ‘last resort’ in a dispute over a new shift system.

In June, the GM Fire Authority agreed to axe 253 firefighters posts and to bring in a controversial 12-hour shift system from April next year.


•Unions bosses considering strike action after threat to sack all Greater Manchester’s firefighters

In total the brigade has had to make cuts of £14.8m over four years.

It will mean the service will have about 1,000 firefighters by 2019 - less than half the 2,200 workforce it had in 1996.

Consultation about the management proposals are due to last for 45 days.

If no progress is made firefighters will be asked to voluntarily sign a new contract. As a final measure all staff will be issued with 12 weeks notice of redundancy and asked to reapply for their jobs - agreeing to the new contract.

One union official said: “It is quite bizarre. It does appear to be referring to the current situation. Both tweets were quickly taken down - but they are the talk of the brigade.”

The tweets were also being discussed at the Labour Party conference in Liverpool.

One firefighter said: “They are being seen as a dig at firefighters. It is like he has thrown his toys out of the pram because he is not getting his own way.”

Another brigade source said: “There is a code of conduct that firefighters have to follow regarding the use of social media and if a lower rank firefighter had done this they would be facing disciplinary action.

“Mr O’Reilly is steering the ship for the biggest fire service outside London and the tweets come over as an unprofessional rant.

“This has not gone down well. He seems to be saying HIS firefighters are an embarrassment.”"



A question that might have to be answered - "Did a personal dispute with the fire chief about cutbacks and work hours influence a leadership decision to prevent fire units from responding?"  It seems unbelievable that a highly trained, professional fire department was prohibited from responding while police, private ambulance crews and civilians tended to the victims.  In a crisis, the public recognizes the importance of their fire/rescue and police departments.  Could the Fire Chief have deliberately prevented his department from responding because his plan to cut the department in half would be jeopardized due to public support?   
« Last Edit: May 25, 2017, 08:26:16 AM by mack »

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Re: Major Incident at Concert at Manchester Arena - UK 5/22/2017
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2017, 08:13:34 AM »

Offline IRISH

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Re: Major Incident at Concert at Manchester Arena - UK 5/22/2017
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2017, 07:02:45 PM »
Mack as im sure you and quiet a few people in here with Irish Connections know Northern Ireland from the late 60's to the late 90's was an awfully difficult place to live and work ESPECIALLY for the Emergency Services

Almost Daily / weekly Bombings in Belfast and throughout the North, Fire Crews coming under gun fire and rocket attack. At times it would make the War Years look like a walk in the park. So to work in around Belfast you where made of good stuff

Yes fom what i have heard Sr officers held fire crews back. There is talk that this was because of Secondary devices but if emergency services are making decisions due to Secondary Devices we may not get any help when help is needed in these new times

To read stories in the papers here of a young 8 year old who died in a mans arms Monday crying for her mammy as he waited for help is heartbreaking. Im sure Sr Management will be sent packing at the end of this

Yes there was alot of trouble in Manchester in Sept 16 when he threatened to sack EVERY Firefighter who didnt sign up to this new deal on shifts. Moral hit the floor. Manchester is an extremely busy Brigade and to my knowledge are starting to rollout Fire / EMS where they respond to EMS calls like Dublin.

In the UK they are also starting to bring in Smaller Fire Engines with reduced crews but that hasnt happened in Manchester yet

It should also be noted that the reason the Police have requested UK Armed Forces to take over cover at public buildings and events etc to free up Armed Police for the streets is because the Tory Government have CUT the numbers of Police on the street which in turn effects Armed Police Numbers
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Offline BritishAndy

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Re: Major Incident at Concert at Manchester Arena - UK 5/22/2017
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2017, 03:37:58 AM »
Manchester is my neighbouring city, around 30 miles away. My own city - Liverpool - has long been a rival of Manchester, both through football (soccer) and music. All of this was put to one side on Monday, it would be fair to say what happened has broke many of our hearts. Personally speaking, I have visited the MEN (Manchester Evening News) Arena countless times to watch some great bands over the years. I know the area well, I know where the blast happened and its all a bit too close to home for a lot of us.
There is a lot of frustration, anger and hurt at the moment from the guys in Greater Manchester Fire Service, there is talk of a vote of no confidence in senior management. There is a fire station literally one mile away from the Arena and those guys on duty only learnt of the incident when it appeared on TV. The ambulance guys (which is completely separate to the fire service in the UK) were making request after request for the fire service to attend, yet they werent sent for three hours.

The Greater Manchester guys have their own Technical Rescue Team which is similar to a Heavy Rescue/Squad company in the USA, they too were not sent for three hours, instead they were told to proceed to a rendezvous point at another fire station on the outskirts of the city.

Basically, senior management - from the Chief downwards refused them repeated requests to attend, despite knowing the ambulance and police were in the 'hot zone' they wouldnt let them go until 3 to 4 hours after the explosion, at which point most casualties had been removed.

It has really left a sour and bitter taste in the mouth of a lot of people here and has probably ruined  a good relationship between fire and ambulance.


Offline nfd2004

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Re: Major Incident at Concert at Manchester Arena - UK 5/22/2017
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2017, 10:03:17 AM »
 Firefighters and their leaders are EXPECTED to respond to serious types of incidents like this. Whether it be England or the USA or any place else.

 What happened here reminds me of what happen during the terrorist bombing during the Boston Marathon a few years ago. However, in that case, when the Boston Firefighters headed into the direction of danger to help those with serious injures and within moments of dying, "it was their leader that headed in the opposite direction". Thankfully he's gone now and has been replaced by someone of totally different character with real leadership abilities.

 Most likely, these leaders were hired by these cities to do ONE THING. That is to get rid of as many firefighters as possible. Just ask any firefighter who has done this job for any length of time, and they will tell you exactly why these firefighters are required. No need to ask these so called experts.

 I'm sure if those firefighters had been allowed to respond to that incident, more lives would have been saved.

 Thank you to "Irish" and "British Andy" for your comments from across the pond. Of course our condolences go out to all the family members and friends for their loss. It is also my personnel opinion that this Fire Service Manager is directly responsible for some of those deaths and his decision may have resulted in some of those injures becoming more serious than they should have.

 I'm also willing to bet that if you asked any member of the FDNY, the largest fire dept in this country, as well as firefighters of Small Town, USA, they would all feel the same as well.   

Offline tenseventyseven

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Re: Major Incident at Concert at Manchester Arena - UK 5/22/2017
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2017, 02:27:05 AM »
It should also be noted that the reason the Police have requested UK Armed Forces to take over cover at public buildings and events etc to free up Armed Police for the streets is because the Tory Government have CUT the numbers of Police on the street which in turn effects Armed Police Numbers

Just to add balance to this, the previous opposition party, the Labour party, also cut police numbers between 1997 and 2010 by introducing a reduced capability PCSO - Police Community Support Officer, basically a security guard without the ability to have a gun or arrest anyone.  Thousands of these were introduced across the UK and that money was taken from the Police budget, that should have been used to recruit more police officers.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2017, 02:29:27 AM by tenseventyseven »

Online 68jk09

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Re: Major Incident at Concert at Manchester Arena - UK 5/22/2017
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2017, 04:11:37 AM »
I am not over there so i am not sure of the specifics but it baffles me that Police are not armed especially with the ongoing terrorist events .

Offline CFDMarshal

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Re: Major Incident at Concert at Manchester Arena - UK 5/22/2017
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2017, 09:56:21 PM »
I went to London last year with my now deceased best friend. The potential for the recent events were discussed by us daily while there. The City of London is a melting pot for sure with whole neighborhoods off limits. We asked to locals and one retired gentleman said , "I guess our prior colonial activities have backfired a bit"!  I was there in 2005 the day after the bombing and it is a marked difference in the demographics of London between then and July 2016. All the locals are moving out, internal security was on everybody's minds in 2005, Have they forgotten?
I had a London cop meet me with his HK in ready position when I was trying to photograph a London Fire Brigade fire house. He yelled and I yelled back!, we met and he advised no photographs allowed, I told him I was on an offical visit and was heading into the house. He leaned in a said sorry mate, this building behind me is the Israeli Embassy, they get a bit pissy if you know what I mean. I nodded, shook his hand and made my way into the kensington high street Fire Station.

 

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