Author Topic: 10-75 Assignment/Response  (Read 1537 times)

Offline raybrag

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Re: 10-75 Assignment/Response
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2018, 10:06:56 PM »
Ah, come on now - you don't have a feeble mind.  Your sharp & intelligent - be kind to yourself - Right?

You don't know me.  Just ask Uncle Willy.  :o

Ray,

I think I know Uncle Willy well enough to say that if you're using him for a reference you must be really desperate. ;)

Told ya I had a feeble mind.  8)
Ray Braguglia
Newport News VA


Nycfire.net

Re: 10-75 Assignment/Response
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2018, 10:06:56 PM »

Offline fdhistorian

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Re: 10-75 Assignment/Response
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2018, 10:33:13 PM »
The initial response for a structural fire is three engines, two ladders, one battalion chief.

The current 10-75 assignment is four engines, three ladders (third is FAST), two battalion chiefs, one deputy chief, and one RAC unit. The normally assigned rescue company and squad company are assigned if available.

The all-hands (7-5) assignment, if control of the fire is “doubtful,” is that normally assigned on the 10-75 plus one rescue and one squad if not assigned earlier.

The simplest explanation of alarm levels would be by total number of units present at an incident.  For example, with 4 engines per alarm, a 12 engine incident could be considered to be a third alarm equivalent.

Why 'equivalent?'  Three alarms might not have been officially struck and yet 12 engines might be assigned because of special calls.  At times you may hear the dispatcher notify the IC that they are one or two units short of the next higher alarm and ask if they want the balance of the units and strike the higher alarm.

In the days of 'dispatchers' multiple alarms, dispatchers could strike higher alarms to provide sufficient units for lower level alarms.  This allowed the higher alarm relocations to occur automatically.

Some incidents and locations, such as aircraft crashes at the airports, receive 'automatic' second alarms to get a more units responding immediately.

A 10-66 Missing, Trapped, Lost, Injured Member is an automatic second or next higher alarm.

A 10-60 Code 1 Major Emergency is a 10-75 plus additional units and Code 2 is a second alarm equivalent plus additional units.

10-76 and 10-77 High Rise alarms bring numerous collateral assignment engines and ladders, resulting in two alarms equivalent of units.  A struck 2nd alarm 10-76 or 10-77 brings in three alarms equivalent of units.

Thus, for a dispatchers responsibility of providing sufficient units to fill an assignment, the 10-76 and 10-77 first alarm is like an old style dispatcher's second alarm, and a second alarm 10-76 or 10-77 is like an old style dispatcher's third alarm to fill the assignment requirements.

 
« Last Edit: April 01, 2018, 10:35:27 PM by fdhistorian »

Offline *******

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Re: 10-75 Assignment/Response
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2018, 11:10:02 AM »
A chief must be responsible in called units to any response. Easy to just transmit a multiple or extra engine/truck to all-hands, but, only what is needed. Case in point. As a BC I was using 2 and 2 at a job. went to all-hands to give relief to first due engine, legit, but had its consequences, not to me but to a 1 year old. On the all-hands a truck was called, relocated to the first due job truck. Found out later that they had only gone a few block to the relocation when a first due box came in for them. This fire took the life of a 1 year old boy, the closer relocated truck may have made a difference.  Bothered me then, and still does 40 years later.

Offline lucky

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Re: 10-75 Assignment/Response
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2018, 01:17:44 PM »
An opposing view of that could be as a result of ordering the all hands, the dispatcher relocates a truck into an area that is missing two trucks. Depending on what part of the city you are in, two missing trucks could leave a large area open and the relocator could have a job and make a rescue. I can't believe that a scenario like that has never happened.

Offline BoroCall

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Re: 10-75 Assignment/Response
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2018, 11:08:47 PM »
Ah, come on now - you don't have a feeble mind.  Your sharp & intelligent - be kind to yourself - Right?

You don't know me.  Just ask Uncle Willy.  :o

Ray,

I think I know Uncle Willy well enough to say that if you're using him for a reference you must be really desperate. ;)


Hey guy's - sorry, I was trying to be lite!!

Offline BoroCall

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Re: 10-75 Assignment/Response
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2018, 11:19:28 PM »
The initial response for a structural fire is three engines, two ladders, one battalion chief.

The current 10-75 assignment is four engines, three ladders (third is FAST), two battalion chiefs, one deputy chief, and one RAC unit. The normally assigned rescue company and squad company are assigned if available.

The all-hands (7-5) assignment, if control of the fire is “doubtful,” is that normally assigned on the 10-75 plus one rescue and one squad if not assigned earlier.

Ok, so that is one of the changes, prior to 9/11 - the initial response to a structural fire was 2 & 1 and long ago there was a signal 10-30, which later became a 10-75.  And originally the 10-75 was for 3 eng's 2 trucks & rescue.   Also, originally the RAC was not assigned until the AH or even a 2nd.

So, as of now the 10-75 gives the BC or D 2 eng's short of a 2nd.

Offline capthale

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Re: 10-75 Assignment/Response
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2018, 09:59:02 PM »
If the 1075 uses all hands does that automatically trigger a second alarm
Retired merchant marine officer

Offline 68jk09

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Re: 10-75 Assignment/Response
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2018, 12:12:06 AM »
If the 1075 uses all hands does that automatically trigger a second alarm
No ...after a 10-75 is given it may or may not become an All Hands....however if the magnitude of the incident calls for it the box  could escalate to a Second Alarm at any point ....like on arrival in lieu of a 10-75 or after one or after an All Hands is transmitted but there is no automatic Second Alarm when using All Hands.

Offline manlt

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Re: 10-75 Assignment/Response
« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2018, 09:42:34 AM »
Boro, 10-30 went out in the 70's or 80's.  The min resp of 2 & 1 was if the other companies were not available (and fallback).  If companies were available min resp would fluctuate between 2 & 2 to 3 & 2.

As per 2 engines shy of second.  10-75 assignment in as far as engines and trucks has not changed in my 20+ years.  4 & 3 with 3rd truck being fast.  What has changed is the rest of the assignment.  The all hands chief now the 10-75 chief.  Division now goes on 10-75.  Rescue and squad will be dispatched if available.  If normally assigned not available, one assigned on all hands.  that has not changed.

Second alarm is an additional 4 engines and 2 trucks.  Yes, if you special call an engine or two, than your closer.

Offline capthale

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Re: 10-75 Assignment/Response
« Reply #24 on: April 16, 2018, 10:40:48 AM »
So when the second alarm units start arriving and rotating the 10-75 was nits do they use the 50/50 meaning half standby and the other half relieved in place? Or can all the second alarm units go to work ?
Retired merchant marine officer

Offline manlt

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Re: 10-75 Assignment/Response
« Reply #25 on: April 16, 2018, 12:22:44 PM »
It depends on what you mean and the fire conditions.  Fire could be of such magnitude (2nd on arrival), that 2nd alarm units are being placed into separate and distinct ops as opposed to relieving 1st alarm units.  Example, fire in a private dwelling that has extending into one or two of the exposures.  2nd (and possibly 3rd) alarm units are going to be covering positions that might not have been covered by the 1st alarm units due to fire conditions.  2nd alarm units in this case are not relieving the 1st alarm units.  Same thing if fire is in a tenement or high rise.  Fire conditions might dictate that some, if not all of the 2nd alarm units are going to work on their own, not relieving 1st alarm units. 
In a perfect world, chief in charge of the fire wants companies in the bullpen.  Some times, companies and chief are playing catch up to get ahead of the fire.  Making sure that companies are relieved before they are out of air is paramount.  On outskirts of the city, 2nd alarm units might get on scene and 1st alarm units are running out of air.
 

Offline capthale

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Re: 10-75 Assignment/Response
« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2018, 01:32:43 PM »
Cool thx
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Offline BoroCall

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Re: 10-75 Assignment/Response
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2018, 08:00:05 PM »
Hey guys, thanks - I did not realize that my original posting was going to create such an educational experience.  My memory, goes back to the late 60's & early 70's - so yes a great deal has changed and I must admit that for quite a few years after 9/11, I was very much so out of the loop.  So, I extend my thanks for bringing me up to date.

Offline Disp51

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Re: 10-75 Assignment/Response
« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2018, 09:35:00 PM »
Sun-visor card from Oct. '69. 10-30 appears to report a "Working Fire"

« Last Edit: April 18, 2018, 09:40:41 PM by Disp51 »

Offline 68jk09

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Re: 10-75 Assignment/Response
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2018, 11:23:00 PM »
^^^^^^^The 10-30 as well as the 10-19 came into play around the time this card was printed....shortly after it was printed the 10-75 was added & the 10-30 was redefined as  a request for 2&2 with the 10-75 a request for 3&2.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2018, 11:25:38 PM by 68jk09 »

 

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