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Incident Alert => Citywide => Topic started by: FDNYSTATENISLAND on March 18, 2014, 08:21:24 PM

Title: Staten Island Bridges Quiz - How well do you know the SI bridges?
Post by: FDNYSTATENISLAND on March 18, 2014, 08:21:24 PM
I found this cool little quiz on SILive.com

How well do you know the 4 bridges that connect SI to Brooklyn and New Jersey?

http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2014/03/pop_quiz_how_well_do_you_know.html#incart_m-rpt-1 (http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2014/03/pop_quiz_how_well_do_you_know.html#incart_m-rpt-1)
Title: Re: Staten Island Bridges Quiz - How well do you know the SI bridges?
Post by: STAjo on March 19, 2014, 11:38:34 PM

Well ... I Scored %50...But, As an Ole Bklyn' Boy, I'm Happy to say I got All of
da' Vz Bridge Questions Right, Including LBJ !  :D
Title: Re: Staten Island Bridges Quiz - How well do you know the SI bridges?
Post by: FDNY793727 on March 20, 2014, 12:07:29 AM
Same here, 50%, but I'll admit that was mostly guessing or eliminating answers, just not actually knowing the facts. Besides, I've only physically been over 2 of those bridges so I got half of them right... ;D
Title: Re: Staten Island Bridges Quiz - How well do you know the SI bridges?
Post by: FDNYSTATENISLAND on March 20, 2014, 12:45:06 AM
Let's just say you both did better than me ;)
Title: Re: Staten Island Bridges Quiz - How well do you know the SI bridges?
Post by: 811 on March 20, 2014, 07:25:41 AM
Question 4 is not totally correct, Maybe the Bayonne Bridge did not allow pedestrians until "recently" , but it was not the only bridge to permit them.  In the mid-late 1950s I know I walked, and also walked my bike, across the sidewalk on Goethals.  I don't recall if there was an accessible sidewalk on both sides but am sure I used the one on the south side.  Being similar in design, Outerbridge probably allowed this as well.  I was marked wrong on my answer and still wound up with 70%

Back in those days too, the only divider between opposing lanes of traffic was the line painted on the roadway.
Title: Re: Staten Island Bridges Quiz - How well do you know the SI bridges?
Post by: mack on March 20, 2014, 08:52:23 AM
811 - I agree.  I am also think the Outerbridge Crossing allowed bikes and pedestrians. 

But how many people walked between Tottenville and Perth Amboy or Mariners Harbor to Elizabeth?
Title: Re: Staten Island Bridges Quiz - How well do you know the SI bridges?
Post by: mack on March 20, 2014, 09:30:11 AM
Thanks FDNYSI      Maybe you can find a quiz on SI ferries.

Back in 1960, the VN Bridge opened and the pledge was to open the bottom deck in the future "when needed."  It was needed almost right away. 

The pledge was to expand the Goethals Bridge and Outerbridge Crossing to accept the traffic flow from the VN Bridge and keep SI roads uncongested.  SI Expressway was to link up with the yet-to-be-named Richmond Parkway from the Outerbridge Crossing to prevent Richmond Ave. congestion.  Richmond Parkway construction was killed by Mayor's office due to environmentalists and investors who wanted traffic to flow into the new SI Mall and shopping area under development. Too bad SI infrastructure did not develop better.

There was a concept to run what is now called Father Cappodano Blvd (the Seaside Blvd) as an expressway to be called "Shore Front Drive" from South Beach to SI South Shore.

SI should have had 3 North-South highways, the East-West SI Expressway, 2 decks of the VN Bridge and expanded Goethals and Outerbridge bridges.

 

Title: Re: Staten Island Bridges Quiz - How well do you know the SI bridges?
Post by: mack on March 20, 2014, 11:38:30 AM
Here is similar quiz on Jersey highways.

http://www.northjersey.com/news/road-warrior-quiz-why-not-just-call-it-the-outer-crossing-1.613801?page=1 (http://www.northjersey.com/news/road-warrior-quiz-why-not-just-call-it-the-outer-crossing-1.613801?page=1)
Title: Re: Staten Island Bridges Quiz - How well do you know the SI bridges?
Post by: mack on March 20, 2014, 12:15:52 PM
Question 4 is not totally correct, Maybe the Bayonne Bridge did not allow pedestrians until "recently" , but it was not the only bridge to permit them.  In the mid-late 1950s I know I walked, and also walked my bike, across the sidewalk on Goethals.  I don't recall if there was an accessible sidewalk on both sides but am sure I used the one on the south side.  Being similar in design, Outerbridge probably allowed this as well.  I was marked wrong on my answer and still wound up with 70%

Back in those days too, the only divider between opposing lanes of traffic was the line painted on the roadway.

Both Outerbridge Crossing and Goethals Bridge were opened June 29,1928 to both vehicle and pedestrian traffic.  All 3 SI bridges before VN Bridge originally allowed you to walk or bike across.

- Outerbridge Crossing and Goethals Bridge were first projects of Port Authority. 
- PA police were established in June 1928 to patrol these 2 bridges.  40 officers were called "Bridgemen".

- Goethals Bridge was named after Major General George Goethals who built Panama Canal and was 1st consulting engineer for PA
- Goethals Bridge took 3 years to build and cost $7.2M
- Goethals Bridge daily traffic is 78K daily
- Goethals Bridge current toll is $13
- Goethals Bridge has a 10 year life expectancy and plans are in process to replace bridge  http://www.panynj.gov/goethalsbridge/ (http://www.panynj.gov/goethalsbridge/)
- Goethals Bridge never made a profit until VN Bridge was completed
- Goethals Bridge previous route designation was Route 439

- Outerbridge Crossing was named for Eugenius Harvey Outerbridge first chairman of then Port of NY Authority
- Outerbridge Crossing annual traffic exceeds 32M (2006) and 90K daily
-  http://www.panynj.gov/bridges-tunnels/outerbridge-crossing-history.html (http://www.panynj.gov/bridges-tunnels/outerbridge-crossing-history.html)

Title: Re: Staten Island Bridges Quiz - How well do you know the SI bridges?
Post by: STAjo on March 20, 2014, 01:09:50 PM

I Think: That whole 'Outerbridge Crossing' Question is Totally Unfair !

I Mean: C'mon - Ya' Name an 'Outer-Bridge Crossing' after Some Guy Named 'Outerbridge' !?!

Really !  ::) [Yeh, I got That One Wrong....]  8)
Title: Re: Staten Island Bridges Quiz - How well do you know the SI bridges?
Post by: raybrag on March 20, 2014, 01:44:21 PM
Just be glad they didn't name one after Augustus Innerbridge, or Rudolfo Partialbridge.   :o 8) ;D
Title: Re: Staten Island Bridges Quiz - How well do you know the SI bridges?
Post by: STAjo on March 20, 2014, 02:14:04 PM
Just be glad they didn't name one after Augustus Innerbridge, or Rudolfo Partialbridge.   :o 8) ;D

A-huh. TY, Ray !
Title: Re: Staten Island Bridges Quiz - How well do you know the SI bridges?
Post by: FDNYSTATENISLAND on March 20, 2014, 02:36:53 PM
Mack, was that planned highway to blame for the "ghost overpass" on Richmond Avenue close to Arthur Kill Road, theres an overpass with nothing ontop of it, it ends outta no where - if you went straight on the Korean War PKWY you would end up there.
Title: Re: Staten Island Bridges Quiz - How well do you know the SI bridges?
Post by: memory master on March 20, 2014, 02:50:59 PM
Mack, was that planned highway to blame for the "ghost overpass" on Richmond Avenue close to Arthur Kill Road, theres an overpass with nothing ontop of it, it ends outta no where - if you went straight on the Korean War PKWY you would end up there.

That is correct about the overpass. Also there is a "ghost overpass" on the SIE between Clove Road and I think Bradley Avenue that was part of that idea.
Title: Re: Staten Island Bridges Quiz - How well do you know the SI bridges?
Post by: grumpy grizzly on March 20, 2014, 04:37:46 PM
wanna a good bar bet, where is Harvard Stadium? It is in Allston/Brighton area, 41/14 first due from Union Square. 33/15, 37/26/ and 29/11 fill out the assignment.
Title: Re: Staten Island Bridges Quiz - How well do you know the SI bridges?
Post by: mack on March 20, 2014, 05:06:49 PM
Mack, was that planned highway to blame for the "ghost overpass" on Richmond Avenue close to Arthur Kill Road, theres an overpass with nothing ontop of it, it ends outta no where - if you went straight on the Korean War PKWY you would end up there.

From Wikipedia - Urban planners vs environmentalists  - environmentalists won:

"Parkway

Nonetheless, during the first fifty years of the 20th century, several proposals for Staten Island parks and parkways were drafted first by the Borough of Richmond and then by the City of New York. It wasn’t until the first years of the 1960s, though, that then Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority Chairman, Robert Moses, revealed plans for a parkway that would connect Brooklyn with New Jersey, traversing the island from the soon to be opened Verrazano-Narrows Bridge on the island’s north shore to the Outerbridge Crossing on the southern shore of Staten Island. This original route of the proposed Richmond Parkway would have bisected ... Fresh Kills, William T. Davis Wildlife Refuge, Reed’s Basket Willow Swamp, Willowbrook and High Rock Park. Conservation activists, given immediacy by the Federal Highway Act and hope in the person of President John F. Kennedy’s Secretary of the Interior, Stewart Udall, mobilized in opposition to these plans.

Their first victory was the saving of High Rock Girl Scout Camp, the acreage of which had originally been a part of Pouch Boy Scout Camp, including Orbach Lake, to the north. With a $35,000 grant from the State of New York is was bought from the Boy Scouts and established as Camp High Rock for Girls. For thirteen years, the camp served girl scouts from throughout the five boroughs of New York City. But, in 1964, the Girl Scout Council of Greater New York secretly decided to sell the camp to a developer for $1,000,000. Upon learning about this sale, the New York City Parks Department and the State of New York, with the help of the Open Lands Foundation, raised over $1,300,000 to buy back the land from the developer, thus creating High Rock Park.

Then, on November 22, 1965, the Staten Island Citizens Planning Committee (SICPC), which had begun in 1954 as an ad-hoc committee of the Unitarian Universalist Church of Staten Island, issued the first of many position papers beginning by invoking Olmsted’s plea for a linear park; it concluded by presenting an alternate parkway plan that would spare what has come to be known as the Staten Island Greenbelt, a term proposed by landscape architect, Bradford Greene, one of the group’s founding members....

At the helm of the SICPC, an all-volunteer organization, were several “off-islanders" – young professionals who had moved to Staten Island’s North Shore area in the 1950s largely because of the quality of life promised by the open space that still existed.... Summoning their many and diverse talents, their strategy involved developing and advocating for an alternate route in the press, before public officials, and, when necessary, the courts.

One year into the SICPC’s legal fight against the original route of the Richmond Parkway, the Staten Island Greenbelt Natural Areas League (SIGNAL), spearheaded by another resident-journalist, John G. Mitchell, formed as a vehicle for rallying community opposition to the highway construction. From 1966 until the early 1970s, SIGNAL organized thousands of citizens and elected officials (including Planning Commissioner Eleanor Guggenheimer, Parks Commissioner Thomas Hoving, Mayor John V. Lindsay, and U.S. Senator Jacob Javits) to participate in annual winter walks through the highland forests, tracing the route of the proposed (and already mapped) highway route. These two citizen organizations and their combined strategies of lobbying, public relations, and grassroots organizing challenged Robert Moses....

In spite of brewing opposition, road work began in 1965 on what became known as “section 1”. When the work was halted by the city, excavations were used to construct what is now known as "Moses Mountain," a rise adjacent to the Manor Road - Rockland Avenue interchange. Other remnants of construction can be seen from the Staten Island Expressway between the Clove Road and Bradley Avenue exits, which are referred to as the abandoned bridges. They are a little west of the Petrides School Complex. This abandoned interchange is currently being removed as part of a 140 million dollar overhaul of the Expressway.

In 1966 Volmer Associates were hired by the city of New York to describe alternate routes to “section 1”. They were proposed, studied, and debated by New York state and city officials, creating contention and divisions even within these governmental units. While travel distance between the island’s bridges was on paramount concern to the Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority, the City Park Department, led by August Hecksher, commissioned the planning firm Wallace, McHarg, Roberts and Todd. Ian McHarg, a Glasgow born landscape architect, who had stated in his much studied book Design with Nature that engineer road builders were “gouging and scarring the landscape without remorse,” headed up the landmark study.

Having pointed out that a method for displaying and factoring social values into highway design and planning had not been developed, McHarg set about creating just that. Long before GIS technology was available, McHarg used data rich maps and overlays which allowed planners to visually understand how social values – historic, residential, economic, recreational, scenic, ecological factors – synergistically interacted with and potentially impacted upon human activity, including road building. Using map transparencies he and his colleagues produced the commissioned report with a recommendation stating that the route to the west of what is today the Greenbelt, was the “least social cost corridor.”

Under duress from developers who were eager to begin building homes adjacent to the roadway, the Greenbelt's erstwhile supporters, Mayor John Lindsay and Governor Nelson A. Rockefeller, publicly backed a compromise route. In response, the two citizen organizations were willing to stop at nothing to preserve what John Mitchell, in one of his writings, referred to as “a fine patch of wild".  With their combined memberships behind them, the officers of the SICPC and SIGNAL sought injunctive relief in New York State Supreme Court, which meant suing both Lindsay and Rockefeller. The court decision found for the plaintiffs. The citizen planners and conservationists were victorious. The area was earmarked as one of two Special Natural Features Districts in the City of New York, and between 1972 and 1974 the urbanist Peter Verity (now of PDRc) prepared for the New York City Planning Commission the strategic and detailed documentation to support this designation."

Results - a green belt with little park lands for people to use, a highway that was half built, congestion on Richmond Ave and Arthur Kill Rd and a lot of wasted money.

Note the mention of "developers" eager to build homes.  Word was there was a lot of money associated with the new mall and shopping center developers which defeated the highway project and doomed SI to an inadequate infrastructure.
Title: Re: Staten Island Bridges Quiz - How well do you know the SI bridges?
Post by: FDNYSTATENISLAND on March 20, 2014, 06:58:55 PM
Thanks Memory and Mack - very interesting.