Real meaning of ALL HANDS
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The basic first alarm assignment is three engines, two ladders, and a battalion chief.
The 10-75 assignment is four engines, two ladders plus a FAST ladder, two battalions, and since 2015 a division chief, plus a rescue, squad, and RAC unit. In effect, the 10-75 and the All Hands signals have been combined.
The 10-75 assignment is four engines, two ladders plus a FAST ladder, two battalions, and since 2015 a division chief, plus a rescue, squad, and RAC unit. In effect, the 10-75 and the All Hands signals have been combined.
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All Hands is also used for 10-76 and 10-77 but it definitely does not change the responding apparatus that are assigned at time of 10-75, 10-76, 10-77.
Also, 10-75, 10-76, 10-77 is only reserved for fires. There can be an All Hands for other non-fire incidents which, from my understanding, would also assign the additional units (4th Engine, FAST truck, 2nd Battalion Chief, Division Chief, Rescue, Squad and RAC)
The 10-75 is a fire OR emergency that requires the response of the additional resources (4th engine, fast truck etc)
Just because a 10-75 is transmitted, does not mean the IC will use all hands. They can use 2&2
The all hands means 3 engines(or 2 engines and a squad) and 2 trucks are operating
All hands, incident doubtful gets the balance of the assignment.
Transmitting the box is when less then 3&2 are responding to a box and additional information necessitates the additional units
(Ex: Single engine for outside rubbish, 2nd source for extension to a bldg. Box is transmitted bringing 2 more engines, 2 trucks and a battalion)
10-75 (-76,-77) defines the nature of the incident as a fire (or major emergency), prompting additional response. All Hands is a SITREP, describing the use of those assigned resources. As JA290 explains, there can be a 10-75 without All Hands working.
In the days before radios on the rigs and the 10 codes, 7-5 plus the box number would be tapped on the telegraph key inside the street alarm box to the borough communications office to notify them that All Hands were working at the incident. This gave the dispatchers an idea of the situation on the ground. 7-5 plus the box number was then transmitted over the bells throughout the borough to alert other companies, in particular those assigned on the second alarm. This is the origin of signal 7-5 as a working fire.
In the days before radios on the rigs and the 10 codes, 7-5 plus the box number would be tapped on the telegraph key inside the street alarm box to the borough communications office to notify them that All Hands were working at the incident. This gave the dispatchers an idea of the situation on the ground. 7-5 plus the box number was then transmitted over the bells throughout the borough to alert other companies, in particular those assigned on the second alarm. This is the origin of signal 7-5 as a working fire.
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According to the published Regulations for the Uniformed Force in the 1950's, preliminary signal 7-5 was basically used to secure a full first alarm assignment. It was described as being used for verbal alarms, upgraded 5-7 signals, or fires discovered while responding to other locations. It was simply an instruction to the Central Office to make certain a full assignment was responding.
There is no mention of an assignment of special units or additional chiefs.
There is no mention of an assignment of special units or additional chiefs.
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I hasten to add that if the top line of the running card had special units or additional chiefs on it, they would go. Also some cards had instructions to always send the full assignment. An example would be Manhattan Box 174, Bowery and Canal Streets at the entrance to the Manhattan Bridge. It was a bridge box and a dispatcher's favorite for borough calls into Brooklyn.
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After reading this thread again, it seems that further refinement is needed.
As I have already posted, the issue of all hands and the 7-5 signal in the 1950's wasn't evident. In 1958 FDNY revised response to the Rockaways where three and two were now required, and also the automatic response and relocations of second alarm companies if the first alarm was reported working. The same was done in Coney Island, but only required the automatic response of one engine and ladder company.
My review of Rescue 3 runs indicate that by 1970 Signal 7-5 was in use with a rescue response (and what else?). I would note the majority of Rescue 3 runs then were simple box alarms (mostly 9-2's and 1-8's). Perhaps 10-20% of the 7-5 Signals had a notation that rescue response was not needed.
My guess (without documentation) is that the 10-75 radio signal was born in the mid to late 1970's at the behest of rescue captains (Downey?) who were unhappy that they were frequently arriving at a job when it was all over but the cheering. On going experience shows that even today "All hands working" reports occur at least five minutes after the box is transmitted. The determination of the "all hands" hinges on the arrival of the chief since company officers have other priorities. Even chiefs may not be in a hurry to transmit the "all hands" (can you spell deputy?). They may want to get a feel for what's going on, or observe the effect of the first line.
The 10-75 signal is something simple and non-judgemental to get rescue on the road...the engagement without the marriage .Since dispatchers are in charge of the fire until the arrival of the first company, they get in the game by loading up the box (the dispatcher's 10-75).
Now, it would be interesting to know how many 10-75's use "all hands" .I think there are a lot of "mercy" all hands reports. Also, has the use of the 10-75 signal decreased the number of "all hands" that go to a second alarm?
As I have already posted, the issue of all hands and the 7-5 signal in the 1950's wasn't evident. In 1958 FDNY revised response to the Rockaways where three and two were now required, and also the automatic response and relocations of second alarm companies if the first alarm was reported working. The same was done in Coney Island, but only required the automatic response of one engine and ladder company.
My review of Rescue 3 runs indicate that by 1970 Signal 7-5 was in use with a rescue response (and what else?). I would note the majority of Rescue 3 runs then were simple box alarms (mostly 9-2's and 1-8's). Perhaps 10-20% of the 7-5 Signals had a notation that rescue response was not needed.
My guess (without documentation) is that the 10-75 radio signal was born in the mid to late 1970's at the behest of rescue captains (Downey?) who were unhappy that they were frequently arriving at a job when it was all over but the cheering. On going experience shows that even today "All hands working" reports occur at least five minutes after the box is transmitted. The determination of the "all hands" hinges on the arrival of the chief since company officers have other priorities. Even chiefs may not be in a hurry to transmit the "all hands" (can you spell deputy?). They may want to get a feel for what's going on, or observe the effect of the first line.
The 10-75 signal is something simple and non-judgemental to get rescue on the road...the engagement without the marriage .Since dispatchers are in charge of the fire until the arrival of the first company, they get in the game by loading up the box (the dispatcher's 10-75).
Now, it would be interesting to know how many 10-75's use "all hands" .I think there are a lot of "mercy" all hands reports. Also, has the use of the 10-75 signal decreased the number of "all hands" that go to a second alarm?
There have been many variables in this over the years, and I think some are combing different response guidelines that have also changed, into one thing.
All-hands (7-5) is three and two (or two engines and squad and two trucks) are operating. Over the last 25 or so years when the 2nd BC, the DC, a rescue and squad respond, has change a few times. The two are not the same. A BC can use all hand, under control and no additional units.
The 10-75 is a request (now) for four engines, two ladders, fast truck, second bc, rescue, squad and deputy. All hands can still be given, and still using the 3 and 2. When I started, the second bc (aka all hands chief) rescue, squad and deputy went on the all hands.
If an officer transmits the second before the all hands, it means nothing. Maybe there weren't 3 & 2 on the scene, or just wanted to save time, and not waist air with, "transmit the all hands, and transmit a second alarm". One has nothing to do with the other.
All-hands (7-5) is three and two (or two engines and squad and two trucks) are operating. Over the last 25 or so years when the 2nd BC, the DC, a rescue and squad respond, has change a few times. The two are not the same. A BC can use all hand, under control and no additional units.
The 10-75 is a request (now) for four engines, two ladders, fast truck, second bc, rescue, squad and deputy. All hands can still be given, and still using the 3 and 2. When I started, the second bc (aka all hands chief) rescue, squad and deputy went on the all hands.
If an officer transmits the second before the all hands, it means nothing. Maybe there weren't 3 & 2 on the scene, or just wanted to save time, and not waist air with, "transmit the all hands, and transmit a second alarm". One has nothing to do with the other.
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Now that we've made this perfectly clear, take a look at how Boston handled the matter. It closely parallels FDNY.
On 12/24/46 BFD instituted preliminary signal 45 with the box. This instructed the department to fill out the full first alarm assignment. Evidently, at the time (and probably still are) there were all sorts of rules for limited response to box alarms under certain circumstances.
Some time after that a working fire response existed. It was discontinued on 12/8/66 and reinstated on 1/13/67. On a box alarm, a request for any extra apparatus or a report of all companies at work was considered a working fire. Then, a deputy chief, the next due engine, and, if in Division 1, the Rescue Company responded. I do not believe there was a telegraph signal for this.
It looks like the "last" word on this was General Order # 16 published on (who says Southampton Street doesn't have a sense of humor) 4/5/76.
The definition of a working fire remained the same. Now, Signal 45 + Box was transmitted and a rescue, a deputy, and the first due engine and ladder on the second alarm responded. It was first used early the next morning for Signal 45-6171.
On 12/24/46 BFD instituted preliminary signal 45 with the box. This instructed the department to fill out the full first alarm assignment. Evidently, at the time (and probably still are) there were all sorts of rules for limited response to box alarms under certain circumstances.
Some time after that a working fire response existed. It was discontinued on 12/8/66 and reinstated on 1/13/67. On a box alarm, a request for any extra apparatus or a report of all companies at work was considered a working fire. Then, a deputy chief, the next due engine, and, if in Division 1, the Rescue Company responded. I do not believe there was a telegraph signal for this.
It looks like the "last" word on this was General Order # 16 published on (who says Southampton Street doesn't have a sense of humor) 4/5/76.
The definition of a working fire remained the same. Now, Signal 45 + Box was transmitted and a rescue, a deputy, and the first due engine and ladder on the second alarm responded. It was first used early the next morning for Signal 45-6171.
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The 10-30 & the 10-75 came into existence around 1970.....prior to that there was no signal for a Fire that "looked good"....on the radio you might hear a box go out somewhere & no preliminary report for quite awhile....Companies could be heavily engaged at the scene but you would not know anything listening then after awhile a Second Alarm would be transmitted....I remember the first Second Alarm i responded to after getting assigned to 108...it was in the morning & we were doing committee work around the FH & on BKLYN radio I heard box 908 Sumner Ave & Macon St being transmitted we were not assigned on the Box but the HW announced that we would be assigned if it went to a Second ....awhile later I was in the FH cellar checking on the coal burner & over the Bells came 22-908....now we were going (only one Truck on the Second & no FAST back then)..... in Boston FD back then they had terms used on arrival like "smoke showing" or "smoke & Fire showing"....BN*44 was one of the first to carry this over into the FDNY back then....if they saw something on arrival they would announce something like "something showing" or "we got something" finally around 1970 the Job put something in print... Just a little history on the Rescue response back when ....R*2 was assigned originally assigned on local street boxes & on the Second Alarm farther away then on the Third Alarm farther out....in 1974 when CPT Fred Gallagher became the CPT of R*2 he decided that there was no point sitting around waiting for a Fire to get bigger...he started turning out on the 10-75 to all BKLYN Boxes...it became the norm in R*2 even though it was not on any assignment card... we would just go 10-8 then be responding to the Box & when we arrived we would tell BKLYN we were at the Box & they would assign us .....a few years later some of the other Rescues started to do the same then it became an official response on all 10-75s as it is today.
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Those posts confirm my rough understanding more clearly. Thanks,. If nothing else, Signal 75 gave the second alarm companies a chance to visit the latrine. Also, in 1978 Boston recorded 135 Working Fires and 140 multiple alarms,
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When John B. was the BN*FF in BN*37 & he got to something that looked good he would at the beginning of his preliminary state "we HAVE a
Fire" then continue to give the standard report....we in R*2 then knew it was something good....John had been a FF in SQ*4 then when it was disbanded he was in 176 before the 37 where he drove BC M. who had been from
Bristol St also.....a good team we always enjoyed working with.
Fire" then continue to give the standard report....we in R*2 then knew it was something good....John had been a FF in SQ*4 then when it was disbanded he was in 176 before the 37 where he drove BC M. who had been from
Bristol St also.....a good team we always enjoyed working with.
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Another question is the origin of the obviously nautical phrase "All Hands". I believe it is found in the City of London. Similar to the U.S., initial organized firefighting involved insurance companies. And pretty much the only things worth insuring were along the River Thames. The obvious manpower available would have been dock workers and "watermen".
On January 1, 1833 the London Fire Engine Establishment (with 19 stations, two fire floats, and 80 men) opened for business. Ex-sailors were the preferred firefighters. "Seamen are to be preferred as they are taught to obey orders and the night and day watches and the uncertainty of the occupation are more similar to their former habits than to those of other men of the same rank in life."
This requirement followed in to the Metropolitan Fire Brigade (est. 1/1/1866). It was officially deleted in 1889. Unofficially, it continued until World War II. Until London fire apparatus were fitted with bells in 1903, firemen used the rope hauling seaman's shanty call of "Hi-Hi-Hi" to warn traffic.
Even today the naval traditions can be found in London Fire Stations. Six bells sound "roll call", "stand-down", "muster all hands", and "off duty". Tea is the favored drink. Members belong to "watches" (shifts) and are referred to as "hands".
Remember where all this came from when you're "standing fast".
On January 1, 1833 the London Fire Engine Establishment (with 19 stations, two fire floats, and 80 men) opened for business. Ex-sailors were the preferred firefighters. "Seamen are to be preferred as they are taught to obey orders and the night and day watches and the uncertainty of the occupation are more similar to their former habits than to those of other men of the same rank in life."
This requirement followed in to the Metropolitan Fire Brigade (est. 1/1/1866). It was officially deleted in 1889. Unofficially, it continued until World War II. Until London fire apparatus were fitted with bells in 1903, firemen used the rope hauling seaman's shanty call of "Hi-Hi-Hi" to warn traffic.
Even today the naval traditions can be found in London Fire Stations. Six bells sound "roll call", "stand-down", "muster all hands", and "off duty". Tea is the favored drink. Members belong to "watches" (shifts) and are referred to as "hands".
Remember where all this came from when you're "standing fast".
Very cool info! brother.