800 Mhz Back Up Frequencies

[jlab]

09:26 hours A few minutes ago I heard a department message that all units in Queens were to switch to the "800 mhz backup frequency " What system are they referring to and can it be monitored or is it encrypted ?

 

[Hank]

This has been mentioned before… the backup frequency is encrypted.

 

[Skyler Fire]

The backup is the new frequency that soon will be the new normal. Just not every rig has the new radios so it’s currently patched thru.

 

[EnginePete]

These 800 mhz frequencies are awful the sound quality is shocking, no idea why they are so popular? Sounds like someone is chewing with their head in a bucket! Fortunately, I don’t have to use them anymore, gives me a headache

 

[nfd2004]

So many places have switched over to those 800 mhz frequencies.

I'm with you "EnginePete" as our local fire department and police department switched to the 800 mhz.
Very limited distance range.

And those of us who remember the FDNY being on the 154's, those channels to listen to were excellent.
Not only the FDNY, but here in Connecticut and the Rhode Island area, I could easily hear busy fire and police depts 60-70 miles away, like Hartford, Bridgeport, Providence, R.I., even Springfield, Mass.

I think the days of tuning in to the action; "as it happens - when it happens" are coming to an end.

 

[grumpy grizzly]

So many places have switched over to those 800 mhz frequencies.

I'm with you "EnginePete" as our local fire department and police department switched to the 800 mhz.
Very limited distance range.

And those of us who remember the FDNY being on the 154's, those channels to listen to were excellent.
Not only the FDNY, but here in Connecticut and the Rhode Island area, I could easily hear busy fire and police depts 60-70 miles away, like Hartford, Bridgeport, Providence, R.I., even Springfield, Mass.

I think the days of tuning in to the action; "as it happens - when it happens" are coming to an end.

Living in Boston, sometimes we got FDNY on the skip!

 

[nfd2004]

AMAZING the radio skip for the FDNY's 154's mhz would reach that far, a distance of over 200 miles from NYC to Boston.
Here at my home in Connecticut 100 miles from Boston, I would pick up Boston when they were on the low band of 33.74 mhz.
But of course sorry to say, those days are over now.

 

[EnginePete]

Indeed! I’ve picked up signals from really long distances, and they were clearer than the 800mhz! I bet the radios cost a lot more as well……?

 

[Atlas]

AMAZING the radio skip for the FDNY's 154's mhz would reach that far, a distance of over 200 miles from NYC to Boston.
Here at my home in Connecticut 100 miles from Boston, I would pick up Boston when they were on the low band of 33.74 mhz.
But of course sorry to say, those days are over now.

The lower the frequency is, the greater skip it would produce. So you would expect the 30-50 mhz to travel a longer distance.

 

[Capttomo]

Another drawback of the digital 800 frequencies is the issue of drop off. Meaning: with analog radio communications, as the signal gets weaker, eg basements, deep inside concrete buildings etc the radio transmissions you are receiving start to get staticky and start to break up. With digital you get a strong signal all the time until you cross over that distance line and then NOTHING! No warning that you are reaching the limits of the radio range. The new digital radios give an audible and visual warning that you have lost signal but no warning when it’s coming. You begin to develop an ear for the “marble mouth “ type digital transmissions versus analog. But still never the same.

 

[EnginePete]

I’d forgotten about that! I drop kicked one once as I was so frustrated with it! Unfortunately it still worked when someone handed it back to me 😂

 

[Captain784]

Years ago, Brooklyn FDNY radio had the same frequency as the Philadelphia Fire Dept. major incident frequency, and you could, at night especially hear Philly FD operations at major fires. I do not know if that is still true. Captain Bob Rainey FDNY Engine 26 retired

 

[jlab]

Another drawback of the digital 800 frequencies is the issue of drop off. Meaning: with analog radio communications, as the signal gets weaker, eg basements, deep inside concrete buildings etc the radio transmissions you are receiving start to get staticky and start to break up. With digital you get a strong signal all the time until you cross over that distance line and then NOTHING! No warning that you are reaching the limits of the radio range. The new digital radios give an audible and visual warning that you have lost signal but no warning when it’s coming. You begin to develop an ear for the “marble mouth “ type digital transmissions versus analog. But still never the same.

I thought that several years ago the FDNY tested digital radios and rejected them because of problems receiving the signal in basements and High Rise buildings. Why are they resurrecting a technology that they previously rejected ?

 

[grumpy grizzly]

The lower the frequency is, the greater skip it would produce. So you would expect the 30-50 mhz to travel a longer distance.

some of the Boston suburbs were on the 154 band.

 

[jlab]

This has been mentioned before… the backup frequency is encrypted.

If the 800 Mhz frequency is encrypted how are members able to post about fires in Queens ? Do they used FDNY radios which decrypt the encrypted communications ?

 

[Hank]

If the 800 Mhz frequency is encrypted how are members able to post about fires in Queens ? Do they used FDNY radios which decrypt the encrypted communications ?

No, lol. Currently.. Don’t know the in depth details.. but the encrypted frequency (backup) units are operating on is “broadcasted” over regular boro frequencies.

 

[seniorofficer]

No, lol. Currently.. Don’t know the in depth details.. but the encrypted frequency (backup) units are operating on is “broadcasted” over regular boro frequencies.

So, does that in a way, convert the back to a simplex system? TX and RX on the same frequency?

 

[EnginePete]

Sounds like it converts a clean strong signal into a bag of nails covered in static! These radios are across the boroughs now and the quality is terrible, when I've had the radio on all I keep hearing is "Say again", "repeat your message" everyone sounds the same, muffled. I think the taxpayers of NYC deserve better, its definitely going to put members lives in danger at some point. Having been in that position when the 'new' radios fail, its a scary place to be

 

[BronxFireRadio]

Also, with the digital radios, there's no longer the analog MDC1200 "chirp" at the end of the unit transmissions, which uniquely identifies each radio with an encoded 4 character code (for those of us who could unencode them). It used to show up on the radio dispatcher's screen. The digital radios have identifiers that are not audible.
Current dispatchers, can you see the unit's digital radio ID in FireCAD?