Difference in Chief rank

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SYRACUSETRUCK3-2010

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Is there a specific reason why some divisions like Fire Prevention have a Chief, and 2 DAC etc but some have more or less depending on what they are tasked with like Ops has a Deputy Commissioner, Chief of Ops, 4 AC's of Ops etc

But yet in SOC there's a Captain of Robotics, not including Rescue, SOC, Hazmat, etc.

I'm just curious bc I know NYC has a lot of fires and other special incidents they deal with every day

But it just seems like so much in a nutshell like you have a Division Chief and a Deputy Chief in most Departments that's interchangeable but maybe not in the FDNY

For example rank goes from
Probie, FF Chauffeur, Lt., Captain, Battalion Chief, Division Chief, Deputy Chief, Deputy Asst Chief, Asst Chief, Chief, and then DAC of Ops, AC of Ops, Chief of Ops, 1st Deputy, COD and on to the Commissioners

You could almost write a book on it.....sheesh

Maybe someone can help me understand their idea of having so many Chiefs alone
 
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SYRACUSETRUCK3-2010 said:
Is there a specific reason why some divisions like Fire Prevention have a Chief, AC, 2 DAC etc but some have more or less depending on what they are tasked with like Ops has a Deputy Commissioner, Chief of Ops, 4 AC's of Ops etc

But yet in SOC there's a Captain of Robotics

I'm just curious bc I know NYC has a lot of fires and other special incidents they deal with every day

But it just seems like so much in a nutshell like you have a Division Chief and a Deputy Chief in most Departments that's interchangeable but maybe not in the FDNY

For example rank goes from
Probie, FF Chauffeur, Lt., Captain, Battalion Chief, Division Chief, Deputy Chief, Deputy Asst Chief, Asst Chief, Chief, and then DAC of Ops, AC of Ops, Chief of Ops, 1st Deputy, COD and on to the Commissioners

You could almost write a book on it.....sheesh

Maybe someone can help me understand their idea of having so many Chiefs alone
Click to expand...
So the Full Uniformed rank structure is this:

Chief of Department
Chief of Fire Operations
Assistant Chief
Deputy Assistant Chief
Deputy Chief (Also known as a Division Chief)
Battalion Chief
Captain
Lieutenant
Firefighter
Probie

Different Bureaus have different needs, for example Fire Operations is headed by the Chief of Fire Operations, and has several Assistant Chiefs and Deputy Assistant Chiefs of Fire Operations. Duties can usually be split (I'm sure Skyler or someone else can give a better definition of their duties.) And they are not always working 24/7. According to my sheet, Fire Operations has 3 Assistant Chiefs and 2 Deputy Assistant Chiefs (although this has likely changed.)

SOC is also a great example to talk about. It is currently headed by an Assistant Chief and has 2 Deputy Chiefs (Hazmat & WMDP), 3 Battalion Chiefs (Rescue, Marine & Foam) and two Captains (CTU and Robotics.)

Back to Fire Operations, Each Borough also has a specific chief assigned to it, known as a Borough Commander. They can hold the rank of either Assistant Chief or Deputy Assistant Chief. There are currently Two Assistant Chiefs (Manhattan and Queens) and Three Deputy Assistant Chiefs (Brooklyn, the Bronx and Staten Island.)

The rank structure can definitely be confusing for some but in essence, say I am the Chief of the Special Operations Command. I could hold the rank of Deputy Assistant Chief or Assistant Chief however that doesn't mean that I am someone's Deputy, it is simply the name of their rank that in reality doesn't mean a whole much.

Finally to close out my little essay, in a Division, there are 4 Deputy Chiefs (Division Chiefs) assigned. However the one that usually has the most experience as a Deputy Chief may be known as a Division Commander. It is the same thing for a Battalion.

(do note that some of my numbers for the amount of Assistant Chiefs and Deputy Assistant Chiefs may be off, haven't updated most of them in ~half a year.)
 
Also on the Commissioner thing, the Fire Commissioner oversees the entire Department, while the First Deputy Commissioner acts kind of like the Chief of Department but for all of the Commissioners and Civilian Staff apart of the FDNY. Certain functions are usually grouped under a larger group. For example, fleet services which is headed under a Assistant Commissioner, is grouped under Support Services, which is headed by a Deputy Commissioner (flipped for whatever reason as compared to the Uniformed side.) Under these Various Commissioners are usually Directors of their respective Function.
 
I just learned a whole bunch ty sir can't wait to see what others have to say

What's the difference between CTU and Robotics I thought the CTU truck carries the robots?


Much appreciated Chief
 
There is a difference between rank & title within FDNY.
So lets talk about the fire side because there is a difference with EMS.

Start off as a Prob. And upon completion of the Fire Academy a new member is assigned to either an engine or a truck co.
Unlike some fire departments, in FDNY there is no promotion or change in the fire helmet color for chauffeurs. Company Captain picks them.

A fire company is commanded by a captain with three Lieut. assigned. There are anywhere normally between 20 to 30 firefighters assigned depending upon the need for that company. This includes engines, ladders, squads, and the rescues. Haz-mat 1 has over 30 firefighters assigned.

The company's members are assigned to work a 25 group system with six groups on duty each shift. Because of this system it requires once every 25 days a covering officer, either a Lieut or a Captain to fill in the open tour. If a spare officer can not fill the open slot then overtime is authorized.

Firefighters can transfer between companies at their request. After being on the job for several years a firefighter can request a transfer into a specialized unit such as a rescue, squad, or even a marine unit.

Lieut's & Captains also wear black helmets. White helmets are for chiefs only starting off with the rank of Battalion Chief.

Each Battalion and division are assigned four chiefs. Now one of the four will be designated that unit's commander. The only change in their uniform is the collar brass. Battalion Chief wears a gold leaf & the commander wears a silver leaf. At the division level, the normal collar brass is a full eagle but for the commander it's one gold star. Remember that both the battalion & division are both assigned extra chiefs to cover group 25, sick leaves, special details, or assignments. On the fire side, there is no difference in the two titles division chief or deputy chief. EMS is a different story.

Each administration makes the needed changes to help steer the department in what they think is the right direction. In some cases this information is not made public and does not appear on department orders. Don't get me wrong, you will see reassignments, promotions, and transfers, but not what or how they will respond. In some cases, responses are regulated by the persons title and ongoing incident.

Staff Chiefs - Deputy Assistant Chief (2 stars) & Assistant Chief (3 stars). Normally they perform administrative duties based on their assignment.
Staff chiefs assigned as Borough Commanders can be found traveling in their assigned area possibly checking companies and assigned battalion or division chiefs. They even attend community meetings besides responding to various incidents.

Some bureaus require move then one assigned staff chief so that is why you see an Asst Chief & several other staff chiefs.
Years ago, Operations, Training, Fire Prevention and Personnel had Asst. Chief as the leader but they were given the title of Chief in Charge (CIC) and wore a 4th star. Today, only the Chief of Department wears five stars.
Years ago FDNY had two staff chiefs on duty around the clock. Today there is only one but a division chief can always be activated
during non-business hours & also weekend to cover in case there is another incident.
The on duty staff chief responds on third alarms, but can also respond on second alarms at their pleasure. You can also hear the Safety Cmd Chief, or even the SOC Commander responding to various incidents.

Deputy Commissioners - I expect to see some changes made in their structure in the future. Just look at the FDNY Medal Day Book. It hits me that FDNY just might be too heavy. There trimming that can be done. Today's new fire commissioner ran his own company and we do not
know yet what ideas he may have. Let's just give him some time.
 
SYRACUSETRUCK3-2010 said:
Is there a specific reason why some divisions like Fire Prevention have a Chief, and 2 DAC etc but some have more or less depending on what they are tasked with like Ops has a Deputy Commissioner, Chief of Ops, 4 AC's of Ops etc

But yet in SOC there's a Captain of Robotics, not including Rescue, SOC, Hazmat, etc.

I'm just curious bc I know NYC has a lot of fires and other special incidents they deal with every day

But it just seems like so much in a nutshell like you have a Division Chief and a Deputy Chief in most Departments that's interchangeable but maybe not in the FDNY

For example rank goes from
Probie, FF Chauffeur, Lt., Captain, Battalion Chief, Division Chief, Deputy Chief, Deputy Asst Chief, Asst Chief, Chief, and then DAC of Ops, AC of Ops, Chief of Ops, 1st Deputy, COD and on to the Commissioners

You could almost write a book on it.....sheesh

Maybe someone can help me understand their idea of having so many Chiefs alone
Click to expand...
Captain of Robotics because no one else was qualified he didn’t take the Battalion Chiefs test so they can’t just promote someone just to make the rank. After being a Deputy Chief you can be appointed / “asked” if you want to go to staff where you can become a Deputy Asst Chief.

Technically Fire the “Division Chief” is really the Commander just not really used said that way.

Right now Mask Services is looking for someone to become incharge and no Deputy Chiefs or Battalion Chief want the position so now they are looking at Captains.
 
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