- Joined
- Feb 7, 2012
- Messages
- 277
Realistically, Engines should be 20 on average. Officers aren't counted in manpower since they are supervisory personnel; same with ladder officers. (unless you're counting total bodies)
10-75 Signal Revision
- Thread starter HCO
- Start date
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2013
- Messages
- 944
Alarm levels, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. were originally established to dispatch a predetermined number of specific companies to a specific location, and to make predetermined relocations, all by sending one telegraph signal. Each additional alarm essentially multiplied the 1st alarm response (sometimes slightly more). The anecdotal correlation was that the number of alarms transmitted reflected the size of the incident, usually a reasonable assumption, but really, only a reflection of the number of units sent.
With the variable number of 1st alarm units, as changed over the years and by areas of the city and by policy revisions and by building specific responses (10-76, 10-77, etc), automatic 2nd alarms, and 10-75 revisions, even the number of units initially sent varies significantly. By total number of units sent, a Midtown 10-77 is a 3rd alarm in residential Queens. Without predetermined response orders or relocations, each incident at a particular box location may differ, from one incident to the next. Comparing 6 and 7 firefighter staffed companies from past decades to today's responses is difficult as they have changed so much.
With the variable number of 1st alarm units, as changed over the years and by areas of the city and by policy revisions and by building specific responses (10-76, 10-77, etc), automatic 2nd alarms, and 10-75 revisions, even the number of units initially sent varies significantly. By total number of units sent, a Midtown 10-77 is a 3rd alarm in residential Queens. Without predetermined response orders or relocations, each incident at a particular box location may differ, from one incident to the next. Comparing 6 and 7 firefighter staffed companies from past decades to today's responses is difficult as they have changed so much.
Summary of the Evolution of the “All Hands” Signal
In 2020 the All Hands assignment of 4 engines, 2 ladders + FAST ladder, 2 BC, DC, Rescue, Squad, and RAC replaced the then lesser “10-75” response. The assignments for the two signals became identical.
The 2024 Safety-driven policy change to the All Hands (7-5) assignment increases the engine and ladder assignment and sets forth additional guidelines:
5 Engines, 4 Ladders (3rd is FAST) 2 BC, DC, Rescue, Squad, RAC. The 5th Engine and 4th Ladder are not included in 10-76 or 10-77 signals
One additional engine may be special called; any further units require a higher alarm —however, one more engine may be special called for Overhaul Relief and one for CFR.
When Probably Will Hold, any additional units assigned will be the nearest available.
When Probably Will Hold or Under Control, additional engines may be special called without transmission of a higher alarm.
In 2020 the All Hands assignment of 4 engines, 2 ladders + FAST ladder, 2 BC, DC, Rescue, Squad, and RAC replaced the then lesser “10-75” response. The assignments for the two signals became identical.
The 2024 Safety-driven policy change to the All Hands (7-5) assignment increases the engine and ladder assignment and sets forth additional guidelines:
5 Engines, 4 Ladders (3rd is FAST) 2 BC, DC, Rescue, Squad, RAC. The 5th Engine and 4th Ladder are not included in 10-76 or 10-77 signals
One additional engine may be special called; any further units require a higher alarm —however, one more engine may be special called for Overhaul Relief and one for CFR.
When Probably Will Hold, any additional units assigned will be the nearest available.
When Probably Will Hold or Under Control, additional engines may be special called without transmission of a higher alarm.
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3rd due is FAST on all signals(75,76,77,60,7-5)
Unless there’s a 3rd due truck assigned prior (Minresp in CIDS, understaffed, etc)
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2012
- Messages
- 277
So then, the presumption is that when the dispatcher assigns 4+3 due to numerous calls, that third truck is assigned for fire duty, and the 4th truck will then be assigned as the FAST on the 10-75?
- Joined
- May 25, 2022
- Messages
- 593
Unless it changed, dispatcher only assigns 4 Engines, 2 Trucks, Squad, Rescue & the Battalion
The way I understand it, but who knows, everything stays the same as before except when the all hands is given the dispatcher adds the extra 1 +1 so therefore the third truck is da fast team. Now, like in da past, if da Chief knows he has the extra truck on the way then sometimes they put the third truck in operation for fire duty, all depends on the fire.
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2023
- Messages
- 2,996
*THIS BUCKSLIP SUPERCEDES BUCKSLIP OPS 24-03-09, Dated 03/29/2024,**
"In an ongoing effort by the Department to help our members protect themselves from being exposed to known cancer causing contaminants at fires, the enhanced response pilot programs shall be as follows, effective 0900 Hrs. February 7, 2025."
"An extra Engine company and Ladder company will automatically be assigned upon the transmission of an "All-Hands Doubtful" for structural fires."
"If an Incident Commander special calls an extra Engine company and Ladder company prior to the transmission of an "All Hands Doubtful", then the Borough Dispatcher shall automatically transmit the "All Hands Doubtful". No additional units will be assigned above the requested 1 Engine and 1 Ladder."
"Any additional requests for Engine companies will require the transmission of additional alarms as per Communications Manual Chapter 7. Additional Ladder companies may be special called without the transmission of a higher alarm. Additional Units may be used to provide relief of units, especially during overhaul operations."
"Incident Commanders who place the control of the fire as either Probably Will Hold (PWH) or Under Control, may special call Engine companies for relief without transmitting the next higher alarm".
"Incident Commanders and Sector Chiefs shall ensure members continue to use their SCBAs throughout cach operation. Using an SCBA, including during the overhaul phase, will greatly reduce a member's risk of inhaling the deadly contaminants found in IDLH areas".
Orders Of Chief Of Fire Operations Kevin F. Woods.
"In an ongoing effort by the Department to help our members protect themselves from being exposed to known cancer causing contaminants at fires, the enhanced response pilot programs shall be as follows, effective 0900 Hrs. February 7, 2025."
"An extra Engine company and Ladder company will automatically be assigned upon the transmission of an "All-Hands Doubtful" for structural fires."
"If an Incident Commander special calls an extra Engine company and Ladder company prior to the transmission of an "All Hands Doubtful", then the Borough Dispatcher shall automatically transmit the "All Hands Doubtful". No additional units will be assigned above the requested 1 Engine and 1 Ladder."
"Any additional requests for Engine companies will require the transmission of additional alarms as per Communications Manual Chapter 7. Additional Ladder companies may be special called without the transmission of a higher alarm. Additional Units may be used to provide relief of units, especially during overhaul operations."
"Incident Commanders who place the control of the fire as either Probably Will Hold (PWH) or Under Control, may special call Engine companies for relief without transmitting the next higher alarm".
"Incident Commanders and Sector Chiefs shall ensure members continue to use their SCBAs throughout cach operation. Using an SCBA, including during the overhaul phase, will greatly reduce a member's risk of inhaling the deadly contaminants found in IDLH areas".
Orders Of Chief Of Fire Operations Kevin F. Woods.
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- Joined
- Dec 7, 2018
- Messages
- 3,564
More 2-2 to come