always a boxnumber used ?

[Petey]

As far as I understand communications now, an emergency is often reported using a special box which is in public.
These boxes have numbers, which are the same used in communications with the units. Correct me if I'm wrong.

What happens when for example a fire is reported using a mobile phone ?
Will then also a boxnumber be used? What ( kind of ) boxnumber will be used?

 

[catry]

Communications questions seem like they're best answered by the astounding Mr. Frank Raffa

http://www.fdnewyork.com/terms.asp

 

[HCO]

Here?s a brief summary, pending any posting by Frank with more details.

Alarms are received in each of the five borough dispatch centers from several means:  the long-used mechanical pull boxes on street corners, each of which transmits a unique box number, voice telephone-type boxes on corners (which also display a unique box number to the dispatcher), automatic fire alarms in buildings which go to private alarm companies and are telephoned to the fire dispatcher, telephones, and mobile cell phones. 

Addresses given by voice are converted by the Starfire computer assisted dispatch system to the nearest street corner box number.  Some major buildings have their own (voice or pull) box.  Each box has a pre-designated alarm response of engines, ladders, special units, and chiefs for the initial alarm and subsequent greater alarms.  The box number becomes a primary point of reference for dispatchers and responders.

 

[manhattan]

Petey -

Out of curiosity, how are alarms dispatched and units assigned in your department?  Is it a national system used throughout the Netherlands or do local jurisdictions have their own systems? 

Thanks.

 

[Petey]

HCO, thanks. This is how I expected it to be.


Manhattan,

First of all, I'm not a FF myself ( wish I was ) so all I know is not inside information.

Since a couple of years in The Netherlands there are 26 districts for safety. In these districts all safety disciplines ( FD, police and ambulance ) work together in one integrated system.
  This system called GMS ( Integrated Dispatch System ? hope translation is o.k. ) is used in all districts, combined with communication system C2000. Every district has its own dispatch centre where FD, police and ambulance come to gether.


How it works :

First a dispatcher receives a call of an emergency. This is possible by automatic like sprinkler or detectors, by pushing buttons in companies/other big buildings or by phone : on a number for non urgent calls direct at FD, police or ambulance service. Or via  1 1 2 ( our Dutch 911 number ) for urgent calls.
In GMS automatically callers information is added (number recognition) and the dispatchers fills in additional information.

Now, I?m not very sure but I think, the GMS contacts different dispatchers for each discipline.
So the fire department dispatcher coordinates FD units:

After that, the very modern system GMS makes a proposal for responding units. The dispatcher confirms or changes as he wishes and by pushing one single button all planned units will be send to the coordinates of the incident. ( coordinates like box-numbers FDNY has, but more location specific I think using GPS )

When this happens messages will be sent automatically to pagers* of FF on duty ( GMS knows who is! ) It?s also possible to switch on radio?s of engines waiting for FF?s, to switch on lights of firehouses etc. During this process there?s also information sent to MDT?s ( Mobile Data Terminal) on engines, ladders or other apparatus.

The MDT provides a lot of info like where the incident is, what kind, but also very important information about geographical situations and where for example hydrants are. Even where?s a cloud of gas or information about population. This system also contains a navigation system for this service, including special roads which can be used by FD, not by citizens. In case of a car crash the engine-commander is also able to receive information about a specific car about how airbags can be switched of or how the roof could be cut best. And much more?

When the team of a vehicle is complete the driver accepts the call and at that point he's attached to the emergency and the navigator starts. This system is also used to report vehicle status to dispatch, like arrival at location or back home / available etc.

For voice communication these services use a digital system called C2000 as I mentioned already. For civilians it?s simply not possible to receive it with scanners. Somehow the system is utilised with voice groups so it wont happen that a local police officer in the south west of our country hears a fire-fighter in the upper north. In theory is seems to be possible to connect those 2 when needed.
Each district has it?s own channels for incident communication which are used by all services at that incident. So a FF commander can communicate with police and ambulance.


* Part of this communication system is the paging system P2000. For civilians it?s allowed to have pagers and it?s possible to receive messages. It?s the only thing we have now. But it?s better then nothing. I hope FDNY has no plans for such a system because I enjoy listening online communications a lot.

I hope this is enough or not to much and that my English is good enough for you to understand. Any questions? Just ask.

 

[Bulldog]

Sounds like quite a system you have in the Netherlands!  It sounds very efficient and streamlined, does it work as good as it sounds?  Other than the fact you can't listen to it on a scanner it sounds ideal.  It sure has an awful lot of desirable features to reduce response time and increase safety for those responding.

Are all of your firefighters and other responders paid or are some of them volunteers?

 

[Petey]

I think so. At least that's what I hear, but as told I don't have any experience myself.

In the Netherlands we have 27.000 firefighters of which 4.500 are paid and 22.500 are volunteers.
In small villages like mine ( Halsteren ) we only have volunteers. In case of a fire our engine gets an alarm together with a ladder from the city of 'Bergen op Zoom' which has a combined paid/volunteer firedepartment.

 

[manhattan]

Petey -

Thanks for that rundown; it sounds like a great system that could definately have some applications here in NYC.  I have to say that I'm not surprised that the Netherlands has something like this.  When I visited there I was highly impressed with many aspects of day-to-day life.  Thanks again.

 

[FDNY150]

The activation of house lights is something LA County has been doing for years. They had SCU's(Station Control Units) that were activated when a specific firehouses tones were hit over the radio. Now, I think it's just the MDT's that activate, and possibly the lights, not sure.

We assign units to alarms in increments of distance, 1,000 foot radius, if my memory serves me right, and line of sight, not taking into account routing, or traffic patterns. We are starting to implement a GIS based system known as BARB Box Alarm Routing something or other. As far as radio technology is concerned, I'm not big on the technology, that's more Frank's realm of expertise. BARB could work, and be efficient, if programmed properly. We don't use the GPS in the rigs other than to look at the screen and see where they are, and oooh and ahhh over it. There are also no plans that I know of to implement GPS into the present Computer Assisted Dispatch System.

 

[Bulldog]

I'm surprised FDNY is in considering using GPS aided dispatch.  Many cities already are using it to great advantage.  The biggest advantage is when units are not in quarters, the dispatch system can quickly evaluate which units are closest and dispatch them.  It's especially useful for EMS units who are on the road and out of the district more often than fire units.  Of course it's also very useful for units responding outside of their home area to rapidly find how do you to a location they are unfamiliar with!

 

[pat255]

Are the boxes actually physical boxes or are theyphantom bpxes just denoting a location?

 

[FD347]

Boxes can be real or dummies (exists only in CADS.)

I do not know if the current CADS can handle a dynamic alarm assignment with GPS input. I think not, at least not in its current configuration. A major rewrite of the software would probably be needed but what can you expect from a 35-year old computer program? (If you're curious, here's the hardware the CADS used to be on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDP-11. It was replaced by a VAX just before Y2K.)

So far, 2 attempts have been made to replace the CADS to no avail.