Canvas or Rubber

[1261Truckie]

For those of us would were around before Bunker Gear: What kind of turnout coat did you wear - Canvas or Rubber?
I wore a canvas turnout coat because I thought it to be more durable than rubber. It had been modified by a guy on Blake and Rockaway Avenues in Brooklyn who put on a larger collar, bellows under the arms, larger pockets and shortened the length of the coat.

 

[lucky]

I preferred the rubber coat, being in an Engine. I stayed drier and I believed warmer in the winter. The rubber didn't get as stiff in sub freezing temperatures. I remember a shoe store on Lefferts Blvd., north of Atlantic Ave., who would repair coats and helmets. The rubber coats were easy to repair when torn, a tire patch kit or old inner tube was usually up to the job.

 

[memory master]

As an engine man my dad had the rubber coat and in the winter he wore a pea coat underneath it. Most of the guys in a truck wore the canvas coat and of course the dungaree jacket. When the "yellow striped" coats came out I believe they were from Janesville or Midwestern.

 

[johnd248]

I can remember buying my rubber coat on the second floor of Pier A in lower Manhattan.

 

[mikeindabronx]

Truckie coats & Duct tape

 

[mack]

Brooklyn 2nd alarm 1966 Rockaway Ave - rubber and canvas:

   

 

[116ff60]

When i joined the volunteer fire service in 1987 as a junior member i wore a rubber coat with an old msa helmet and pull up hip boots. We at the time still were using steel air cylinders too until the company decided to spend some money on new turn out gear and scba.

 

[mikeindabronx]

Brooklyn 2nd alarm 1966 Rockaway Ave - rubber and canvas:

   

Rubber with a patch on the elbow:

 

[nfd2004]

Looking at some of these pictures today, it seems just "So Antique". But it was very sadly a lesson learned after the deaths of THREE FDNY Firefighters from Ladder Co 5, who suffered some very serious burns while operating at a fire on Watts St in lower Manhattan.

I remember the words of the Youngest member at the time, I think Probationary Firefighter Jimmy Young as he was being placed into the ambulance that night. He said; "if I don't make it, just tell everybody that this is still the Greatest job in the world". Those words headlined every newspaper that covered the story.

The Captain of Ladder 5, Capt John Drennan, suffered with very serious burns for 40 days before he passed away. I remember the late Lt Jimmy Curren talking briefly about it at a training seminar given at "the Rock". Lt Curren had said that he had received "Fourth degree" burns, which he described as burns into the bones.

As I remember, it was after that fire that the FDNY decided to change to bunker gear. And bear in mind that I know of NO OTHER larger City in the northeast, except maybe Philly (?), which was using Bunker Gear.

Before buying Bunker Gear for the entire dept, the FDNY tried several types with some of the busiest companies in the city. Facts were gathered on the results and the decision was made on which bunker gear to buy for the entire dept.

After that serious incident and the FDNY decided to go to bunker gear, most every other city in the entire northeast followed their example. I remember as a firefighter in Connecticut, it was agreed upon by both the firefighters union and the city, in the written contract, that the city would provide such bunker gear to all of the firefighters.

I'm sure most guys who worked with a rubber or canvas coat, and three quarter rubber boots, would tell you how much easier it was to move around and do the job. But we now know, because of what happen in the case of this serious Manhattan fire, the bunker gear used today is so much safer than what was used then. No doubt many firefighters lives are saved today throughout so many cities because of the Supreme Sacrifice that these Three FDNY Members had to pay. And because the FDNY was willing to do what they could to prevent this from ever happening again.   

 

[mack]

My father wore a black rubber turnout coat when appointed in late 1950s.  He wore a canvas turnout coat in the 1960s when promoted to LT. Then a rubber turnout coat as a chief in 1970s to mid-1980s.

   

 

[tem217]

john drennan was one of my high school football coaches and also had the pleasure to work with him in L114
the very next morning about 20 of us from tally ho went to see john at the burn center
jimmy young had died at the scene and chris siedenberg would pass shortly after our arrival
we were informed shortly after our arrival that mayor rudy guilliani visited john and chris with his comptroller
and told him..this is why i want you to expediate the purchase and distribution of bunker gear.
and as previously stated john fought for 40 days
burns are calculated by the percentage of body that is burned and then add your age
you want that number to be under 100
john was burned 65% of his body and was 49 yrs old that= 114
how a number stays with you.

 

[mack]

john drennan was one of my high school football coaches and also had the pleasure to work with him in L114
the very next morning about 20 of us from tally ho went to see john at the burn center
jimmy young had died at the scene and chris siedenberg would pass shortly after our arrival
we were informed shortly after our arrival that mayor rudy guilliani visited john and chris with his comptroller
and told him..this is why i want you to expediate the purchase and distribution of bunker gear.
and as previously stated john fought for 40 days
burns are calculated by the percentage of body that is burned and then add your age
you want that number to be under 100
john was burned 65% of his body and was 49 yrs old that= 114
how a number stays with you.

http://modernfirebehavior.com/the-triple-firefighter-line-of-duty-deaths-that-changed-us-all-the-watts-street-fire-in-new-york-city/

 

[memory master]

Mack, was that photo showing 265 engine or 165 truck on the Lt's front piece? Just curious.

 

[jks19714]

Of all the things I witnessed as an EMT, I think burns were the worst.  We had an asphalt shingle plant in our district.  Employees tried to fight an asphalt vat fire with a straight stream of cold water -- two of them were covered in molten asphalt.

We took them up to Chester-Crozier Burn Center.  They were short handed and we stayed to help remove the asphalt with kerosene and gauze.  I can still remember what they went through.  The nurses were something special in that unit.

 

[mack]

Mack, was that photo showing 265 engine or 165 truck on the Lt's front piece? Just curious.

Engine 165.

 

[memory master]

Mack, was that photo showing 265 engine or 165 truck on the Lt's front piece? Just curious.

Engine 165.

Thanks Mack. I presume that photo was around the time that E165 was founded.

 

[fdhistorian]

Looking at some of these pictures today, it seems just "So Antique". But it was very sadly a lesson learned after the deaths of THREE FDNY Firefighters from Ladder Co 5, who suffered some very serious burns while operating at a fire on Watts St in lower Manhattan.

I remember the words of the Youngest member at the time, I think Probationary Firefighter Jimmy Young as he was being placed into the ambulance that night. He said; "if I don't make it, just tell everybody that this is still the Greatest job in the world". Those words headlined every newspaper that covered the story.

The Captain of Ladder 5, Capt John Drennan, suffered with very serious burns for 40 days before he passed away. I remember the late Lt Jimmy Curren talking briefly about it at a training seminar given at "the Rock". Lt Curren had said that he had received "Fourth degree" burns, which he described as burns into the bones.

As I remember, it was after that fire that the FDNY decided to change to bunker gear. And bear in mind that I know of NO OTHER larger City in the northeast, except maybe Philly (?), which was using Bunker Gear.

Before buying Bunker Gear for the entire dept, the FDNY tried several types with some of the busiest companies in the city. Facts were gathered on the results and the decision was made on which bunker gear to buy for the entire dept.

After that serious incident and the FDNY decided to go to bunker gear, most every other city in the entire northeast followed their example. I remember as a firefighter in Connecticut, it was agreed upon by both the firefighters union and the city, in the written contract, that the city would provide such bunker gear to all of the firefighters.

I'm sure most guys who worked with a rubber or canvas coat, and three quarter rubber boots, would tell you how much easier it was to move around and do the job. But we now know, because of what happen in the case of this serious Manhattan fire, the bunker gear used today is so much safer than what was used then. No doubt many firefighters lives are saved today throughout so many cities because of the Supreme Sacrifice that these Three FDNY Members had to pay. And because the FDNY was willing to do what they could to prevent this from ever happening again. 

Technology often advances faster than 'progress' can occur. 

Nomex turnouts and hoods were available in the mid 1970's, and full bunkers were being issued in some departments by 1979. 

A local tragedy was not required.

 

[mack]

My father wore a black rubber turnout coat when appointed in late 1950s.  He wore a canvas turnout coat in the 1960s when promoted to LT. Then a rubber turnout coat as a chief in 1970s to mid-1980s.

   

I still have my rubber turnout coat.  Brother and brother-in-law wore rubber then later bunker gear.  Son is all bunker gear era.

Richmond (SI) 3rd alarm - April 5, 1962 - Fire in Staten Island Rapid Transit (SIRT) train yard - shops, offices and seven passenger cars.

 

[mack]

R 1 rubber turn out coats 1950s:

   

 

[mack]

1960s - Commissioner and COD - a white rubber coat: