NYPD High Water Resistant Units

[BCR]

I found this article, it is a bit old but thought it might Intrest some people here, apparently they purchased seven units, it appears to be basically a Ford F-250 that has a suspension lift, customs rims and tires and the exhaust pipe is extended up a few feet. It has a winch and a platform to hold a zodiac type boat. Check out the link for photos and more info http://www.ny1.com/content/news/191283/nypd-debuts-seven-high-water-resistant-trucks-to-be-used-in-emergencies

 

[Bulldog]

We all knew it had to happen!  FDNY got some new equipment to handle high water situations like those that occurred during Sandy so NYPD couldn't be left out.  They had to go buy some new toys so even more services could be duplicated between the 2 agencies.

 

[truck4]

A common sense move after lessons were learned. At the very least, they can get thier own people out. Good move.

 

[tem217]

the nypd still remains proactive
as I am reading this topic I recalled scoppetta and cassanno turning down the opportunity for the fdny to obtain a helicopter.
they said they have a good relationship with the nypd aviation unit and that a helicopter was not needed.
another missed opportunity by the fdny .

 

[MP1234]

What would the FDNY need a helo for?

 

[Bulldog]

What would the FDNY need a helo for?

On every 3rd alarm a BC is dispatched to be the air recon chief.  At this time they are flown by NYPD in one of their choppers.  Also for large brushfires one of the NYPD choppers will respond using a Bambi basket.  Also in the case of high-rise fires choppers are commonly used to take men and equipment to the roof or to evacuate from the roof.  They are also used as air ambulances in many cases and since FDNY runs the EMS that could be used for that.  Many large city fire departments have their own helicopters, LA County has a huge fleet of helicopters.

 

[MP1234]

Yes i know all that, and thats what the NYPD Helo does. Just don't think its worth the money for the amount of times it would be used. If we use the bambi bucket that means we have to stop all operations and move out everyone to safe area. Never seen the Helo be used to drop off the High Rise team or as Air ambulances. Just saying it works in other cites but I dont feel its worth the money and training in this area.

 

[fdhistorian]

There are only a few fire department owned and operated helicopters - Los Angeles, Los Angeles County, Orange County CA, CALFire, Chicago, and Miami Dade County, FL.

Most others are part of cooperative arrangements with the PD or by contract.  The problem is that they require continuous, intensive, and expensive maintenance, plus training and flight time for crews.

 

[tem217]

on 9/11 the south tower twisted moments before it collapsed..had the fdny had its own helicopter with members trained in bldg. construction and collapse potential I feel that when they saw the upper portion of the tower twist or shift a mayday would have been transmitted for collapse imminent..this would have given the units who were staging at the lobby command post the opportunity to evacuate it would have also given the units in the street who were approaching the towers to seek a safer location.  as a lieutenant who was approaching the lobby command post with his engine co. as the south tower collapse I recall seeing the members faces inside the lobby awaiting assignments.  as a survivor who was caught in the collapse which took the lives of two of my members  I also wonder what was going through the minds of our members at the command post who were looking out of the lobby windows as the tower collapsed.
for this reason I feel we need our own helicopter and also feel that our administration failed us by not obtaining one.

 

[68jk09]

I think an FDNY helo w/FD Members on board may have saved lives on 9-11....even after the  initial collapse's it could have been used to delineate the actual work area....thruout the first day it was next to impossible to envision the work area as well as the area's where most resources were best assigned  & distributed to approach from all sides & to visually surface search the center areas that were almost impossible to reach on ground level at that time....also using searchlight & thermal camera thruout the night as well as best approach routes  etc..etc ....a birds eye view gained by FD Members would have been excellent to apportion resources efficiently.............On 8-18-07 @ the Deutsche Bank Fire  (Continued RIP to FF's Graffagnino & Beddia) the Air Recon Chief was in the air during the Fire but had to return to Floyd Bennett for fuel however for reasons i am not aware of they did not return to the scene....i would think that when they were above in the early stages the top of the bldg may have not been visible i dont know....what i do know is that hours later as we were moving a line floor to floor extinguishing Fire & conducting searches  which was difficult & time consuming  a HT report to the Command Post stated that there was "large AC units on the roof".....the Command Post asked "who is giving this report ?"......the answer was ..."the Photo Unit... i am on top of 1 Liberty Plaza "....no further transmissions were heard concerning this .....the bldg prior to the Fire had been deconstructed from 40 down to 26 so technically there was no "roof" & the floor load on each floor was pretty light much of it had consisted of work sheds that for the most part had burned up...when we got up to the topmost floor i was shocked to see what the Photo Unit FF was reffering to.....directly in line w/the main Fire area (which had buckled steel around floor 17  were several large dumpsters that were filled w/the concrete from the floor that had been directly above.....a definite unsuspected floor load which in my mind  ....if one floor pancaked it would have continued down....as i said this was in line w/the main Fire area on each floor & we were using  & basically rotating 3 ENGs & 2 LADs per floor so there were an untold number of Units either working there way up to relieve or on the way down after operating (each succesive floor was like an individual All Hands operation ...tough hot & time consuming..... lengths had to be brought up & added to the 2 1/2"  line .....wooden coffin covers @ each floor opening had to be cut open from below ...windows some plywood covered & some glass on the sides opposite the WTC had to be vented et etc ).....i digress from my original point but the picture was a lot of FD Members below an unknown heavy load for hours .....had we had our own FD helo i am sure it would have been on station to verify the top floor hazard & when reporting the same might have more attention paid to the report JMO.........also we have increased our Marine Units significantly since 9-11 which adds to our mobilization capability's for water rescues but an FD helo could certainly  enhance  our capability's for water rescues.   

 

[Bulldog]

Another point is that if FDNY had a manned helicopter available it could easily respond much sooner to major incidents than the present situation allows.  In certain circumstances this could be a game changer because the early attack would have the benefit of better information quicker.  Another thing I thought about for quicker observation at fire scenes would be one of the small remote-controlled quad copters.  They are easily operated by one person and have high resolution cameras onboard.  The cost is such that significant numbers of them could be deployed within the fire department.

 

[guitarman314]

Another point is that if FDNY had a manned helicopter available it could easily respond much sooner to major incidents than the present situation allows.  In certain circumstances this could be a game changer because the early attack would have the benefit of better information quicker.  Another thing I thought about for quicker observation at fire scenes would be one of the small remote-controlled quad copters.  They are easily operated by one person and have high resolution cameras onboard.  The cost is such that significant numbers of them could be deployed within the fire department.

  How about a Recon Drone?

 

[mack]

In addition to the reasons the Chief and others have mentioned, there are other good reasons FDNY should have its own helicopter instead of relying on NYPD for their aircraft with their pilots and their equipment and their training.  Its like calling a taxi instead of driving your own car in your own driveway.

An FDNY helicopter would be a great asset to the Marine Division.  If based, for example at the Navy Yard, it could respond to and reach locations much faster than fireboats, transport command and support personnel, transport injured and provide aerial observation.

An FDNY helicopter might also compliment SOC operations and provide another dimension of rescue, rapid transport, aerial observation.

 

[gabesdad09]

It has always intrigued me as to why FDNY does not have their own helicopter, as it can also increase rescue capabilities.  Roof rescue could be implemented as well as for search and rescue around MCI incidents such as the train derailment in the Bronx near Spuytin Duyvil.  Eyes in the sky could be already up there as an auto dispatch instead of calling battalion chiefs and asking if they want them or not.  Also, as previously stated, helicopters can facilitate water search and rescue as welll

 

[68jk09]

In regard to mack's reply above ....interesting that you mentioned the BKLYN Navy Yard since back in the late '70s when R*2 formed the original "seat of the pants" FDNY Dive Unit w/personal FFs gear donated & used  & the FDNY picked up on it & Dispatched R*2 to all 5 Boros for dive jobs (the NYPD @ the time did not have 24/7 Divers using who they had when they were working  mostly as evidence collection/search ) a request was submitted officially from us  to arrange for a helo pickup @ the BKLYN Navy Yard a few blocks from  our Carlton Av qtrs back then....it did not happen .... it took years for the FDNY to actually formalize training /certifications & provide dive equiptment....we had our equpment jammed on an already overcrowded Rig & we mounted the Zodiac inflatable boat on a pulley system hanging from the cieling so it could be lowered onto the roof of the Rig if called to a Dive job.... the first actual Scuba Rig was a scrapped NYC Health & Hospital Ambulance that we got Nick Ciampo who @ the time was the Director Of the FDNY Shops to procure....it's all come a long way today.....however again in regard to the Helo ...back then there were certainly many former qualified  Vietnam helo pilots OTJ & today w/all that is going on Militarily there probably are still a number of qualified helo pilots.

 

[BCR]

In regards to the military, with the conflicts in the Middle East winding down ( although other conflicts appear to be sparking ) is there any helicopters coming through the surplus pipeline that the FDNY could procure and would be able to start a helicopter program without a massive investment in a new helo? I'm not talking about something big like a Blackhawk, more like something along the lines of a MH-6 Littlebird, it would probably be great for observation, being smaller I'm sure maintenance wouldn't be as bad as a bigger unit and would probably prove to be very flexible in recon, searches, could probably have a searchlight mounted along with a night vision / inferred system and Depending how they set it up it could also probably be used to insert a roof team on a high rise. With Spec ops troops being used more and more and the little bird generally being an insert - extract platform and support unit (gun mounted unit) for spec ops. i would think there is a probably a bunch of qualified pilots on the platform already out there possibly already in the FDNY. Start the program out with surplus Equiptment and already qualified personnel and see how it goes. I am not familiar with the surplus program so I don't know what's available but it seems like today everything has to be brand new, 20-30 years ago those 6 new FDNY high water rescue units probably would have been surplus 2.5 ton 6 wheel drive trucks at a minimal cost as opposed to brand new custom units so I'm not sure this is an option anyway

 

[soda-acid]

In the late 60's C.O.D. John T. O'Hagan wanted a helicopter. Money was to be put aside in the Capital Budget for a few years as it was a very expensive purchase. Like many items in the Capital Budget at the time it never happened. This was way before the fiscal problems in 1975, so maybe politics killed it?