Positive Pressure Attack

vbcapt

vbcapt

Joined
Apr 9, 2007
Messages
1,159
Want to hear your opinions on Positive Pressure Attack (PPA), gasoline powered fans being utilized before the initial hoseline goes into operation.

Someone from Salt Lake City is pushing this and after hearing about it, trying it, and seeing what it does or doesn't do, I'm definitely not impressed with it.

My big issue is with our staffing of 1 Officer and 2 Firefighters, I don't have the time or inclination to be screwing around with a fan on an Engine.
 
With NYC Manpower the effort would be mis-directed......w/less Manpower as you state you have it would be a total waste.
 
our second due piece whether the engine or the truck sets up the PPV. It is usually after the inital hose stretch and attack. They coordinate with the interior team and the outside vent firefighter make sure of the opposite side venting. Most of our stuff is single family detached and it works well in that setting. Like anything else you must train, train and train! 
 
CFD: PPV is different than Positive Pressure Attack where we're at. Some use the 2 terms as the same, their usage and tactics are different. Positive Pressure "Attack" is when fans are setup before hoseline deployment/usage. The theory is that the high output fans are blowing the smoke and heat away from the initial entry team in order for them to reach the seat of the fire easier. The heavy rush of air also intensifies what fire you have

The main problem I'm experiencing is crummy staffing, the other is that this is such a meticulous operation and if ALL the stars are not aligned the outcome is very bad, for the people first and then the property you're trying to save

We can train until we vomit or pass out however, when we have 1 Officer and 2 Firefhgters (1 of those Firefighters is the chaffeur) it just doesn't cut it. In any Dept. with poor apparatus staffing we don't need to go beserk and try to do everything unless there's adequate forces in place. What I'm hearing from the grapevine in Salt Lake City is that they've been using this since around 1990 and 20 years later they're still having problems
 
vbcapt you hit the nail on the head. Thing at a fire rarely if ever go as planned, this is a disaster waiting to happen.....keep it simple!
 
You are correct Deano, I saw "positive pressure" and fell into the PPV mode! I have read about and studied the PPA concept, specifically Salt Lake City/County. In my opinion, Jupiter has to align with Mars for that to work on a consistent basis. You are right in the fact we suffer from crummy staffing and one thing I feared was inadequate water flow at the point of attack. We run rural areas with questionable water supply. Thanks for keeping me straight, see you in January!
 
For Positive Pressure Attack to work successfully there must be adequate manning to get the first line into position quickly, with a back up line ready
and
the outside vent position MUST do his job without being sidetracked by anything else.
No vent....no PPA
 
Not to be too prejudice, but I pretty much go by the Tactics of the FDNY. They always do their own test before adopting new procedures. If the FDNY says "Positive Pressure Attack" is the way to go, then I'm sold. Until that time, not to put any other dept down, I just put any new tactics "on hold".
  And see you in a few weeks at the January Member Meeting.
 
Talked to my son who was a contract FF in Iraq. They NEVER  use PPA. And to all our brother firefighters, both M and F my wishes for a safe and happy holiday.When the rig goes out I hope you all return safely. Merry Christmas!!!!!!! :) :) :)
 
We like to call it the Stoker fan!

Just the other morning the shift before us started the fan without knowing where the fire was and it resulted in an additional engine company to the scene, the incident commander screaming on the radio for everyone to get out.

And I also agree that the misnomer of people thinking Positive Pressure Ventilation is the same as Positive Pressure Attack. A lot of people are mistaken or maybe just confused.
 
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