Teleprinters and MDT History?

QUEENS1985 · Apr 28, 2012

What year did the teleprinters come out into the FDNY? What about the MDT's? Was it always Starfire?

FD347 · Apr 28, 2012

Teleprinters are part of Starfire. It was designed in 1975 and installed in Brooklyn first around 1977 with the rest of the city shortly thereafter.

MDT's and FDT's (firehouse data terminals) were experimented with starting around 1992. They went citywide around 1996. FDT's didn't work out and were abandoned.

On a side note to any members here: MDTs have been in the rigs for the better part of 17 years. For 17 years you've been asking us the same thing, "We didn't get the run. Can you resend it?" For 17 years we've been giving you the same answer, "Reset the MDT."

How much more time do you need to figure out how to use the MDT?

68jk09 · Apr 28, 2012

Frank ...in regards to your post about re-setting the mdt ......if a Unit has to re-set the mdt to get a run why did they not get it in the first place ?.....a Unit should not have to drive down the street re-setting the mdt every few blocks.........on the mdt subject...how many times is a Unit told that their mdt shows off.....i never knew anybody who shut their mdt off....not breaking your shoes....just thought you may have some insight on this.

69 METS · Apr 28, 2012

68jk09 said:
Frank ...in regards to your post about re-setting the mdt ......if a Unit has to re-set the mdt to get a run why did they not get it in the first place ?.....a Unit should not have to drive down the street re-setting the mdt every few blocks.........on the mdt subject...how many times is a Unit told that their mdt shows off.....i never knew anybody who shut their mdt off....not breaking your shoes....just thought you may have some insight on this.

Good points Chief ... I often wondered the same thing.

FD347 · Apr 28, 2012

I have no explanation as to why it doesn't work, only that it's been like this since the beginning. I observe the problem to be more frequent in wet weather leading me to believe it's an RF propagation issue. Combine that with the normal occasional packet loss and latency of a digital communications protocol and you have a recipe for failure.

But not to worry for much longer. If and when (in the next 5 years or so) they get the new Intergraph CADS, the entire MDT system will have to be replaced.

In the meanwhile, I suggest going back to basics for a backup: mount a sheet of plexiglass on the dashboard and keep a China marker handy so you can write down the runs on the fly.

69 METS · Apr 28, 2012

FD347 said:
In the meanwhile, I suggest going back to basics for a backup: mount a sheet of plexiglass on the dashboard and keep a China marker handy so you can write down the runs on the fly.

A small beat up clipboard with a supply of cut to size slips of scrap paper and a pencil sharpened with a knife, bolted to the dash of a Mack CF ... Slips are transferred to the officer's tie clip as they accumulate. Crude but effective!!!

memory master · Apr 28, 2012

69 METS said:
FD347 said:

In the meanwhile, I suggest going back to basics for a backup: mount a sheet of plexiglass on the dashboard and keep a China marker handy so you can write down the runs on the fly.

Click to expand...

A small beat up clipboard with a supply of cut to size slips of scrap paper and a pencil sharpened with a knife, bolted to the dash of a Mack CF ... Slips are transferred to the officer's tie clip as they accumulate. Crude but effective!!!

That's a bit of the job that'll never fade away. Tried and true, worked for years and should have been patented! ;D

QUEENS1985 · Apr 28, 2012

Did the teleprinters look and work the same way as today? Even the touchscreen?

68jk09 · Apr 28, 2012

The original teleprinters were not touch screen ...they had round buttons for the different signals.....also they did not announce ENG LAD BN like today....there was no tone at all just a buzzing sound as the carrier moved across the page.....Companies soon developed a variety of devices (usually a microswitch) to sound an alarm when the printer went off.....these devices were forbidden by the Job so they had to be easily removable if the machine broke....this never made sense....it took many years for the Job to integrate an audible alarm into the system.

QUEENS1985 · Apr 28, 2012

Interesting history. When did the "beeboo's" that we know today come around?

811 · Apr 28, 2012

68jk09 said:
The original teleprinters were not touch screen ...they had round buttons for the different signals.....also they did not announce ENG LAD BN like today....there was no tone at all just a buzzing sound as the carrier moved across the page.....Companies soon developed a variety of devices (usually a microswitch) to sound an alarm when the printer went off.....these devices were forbidden by the Job so they had to be easily removable if the machine broke....this never made sense....it took many years for the Job to integrate an audible alarm into the system.

The "easily removable" devices were added because a member standing housewatcth became more a piece of ancient history than the horses or steam engines.

FDNY150 · May 2, 2012

The BeeBoop came around some time in the 80's. The old teleprinters used to buzz and make a beeping noise, but the beeping wasn't that loud. I can hear it in my head though.

kidfrmqns · May 2, 2012

Before the teleprinters did the house watch have to count bells? Were companies alerted for a run in any other way than "taping out" the box number?

memory master · May 2, 2012

Prior to teleprinters and voice alarm the member on housewatch was responsible for "counting" the bells, if necessary turning out the companies affected and logging the "signal received" in the company journal. A journal entry would have looked like...
"12:06 Received alarm by telegraph signal station 456". or
"12:32 Received alarm by telegraph signal station 654, both companies responded."

Runs would also be received (by the first due companies) when the dispatcher was in receipt of a phone alarm. He would tip off the first due companies with 3 short rings on the Dept. phone, give the housewatch the address and then transmit the box over the bells.

Of course, units that were out of quarters for what ever reason would receive their runs via Dept. radio.

Disp51 · May 6, 2012

The dispatcher would send the signal twice, with the primary bell (brass), and the secondary bell (steel) so it would be two distinctive sounds. In addition, smaller steel bells would be placed throughout quarters, which would sound during both transmissions. Everyone would count the incoming alarms, and most could tell which boxes were to be run from memory, plus there was always a large board with the first due assignments either in the kitchen and/or sitting room . Also, at the bottom of the telegraph bells at the housewatch was a button to sound the bells throughout the house. This was used at night to supplement the lights to turn out the members, and also to call the members down for meal, chief's visit, etc.
At the borough CO's, the bells would be restricted to the first and second alarm companies late night unless fire conditions were too busy.

kidfrmqns · May 7, 2012

Disp51 said:
The dispatcher would send the signal twice, with the primary bell (brass), and the secondary bell (steel) so it would be two distinctive sounds. In addition, smaller steel bells would be placed throughout quarters, which would sound during both transmissions. Everyone would count the incoming alarms, and most could tell which boxes were to be run from memory, plus there was always a large board with the first due assignments either in the kitchen and/or sitting room . Also, at the bottom of the telegraph bells at the housewatch was a button to sound the bells throughout the house. This was used at night to supplement the lights to turn out the members, and also to call the members down for meal, chief's visit, etc.
At the borough CO's, the bells would be restricted to the first and second alarm companies late night unless fire conditions were too busy.

This has probably been discussed but I missed it. I always wondered how units would know they were due on a box they didn't normally run. Say 82/31 and 85/59 were operating at a fire and another first due box came in for 82/31, How would say 94/48 and 50/19 know they were due there and that 82/31 were unavailable?

FD347 · May 7, 2012

Every house had a running board like this one from E224:

Using box 426 in Brooklyn as an example
0426 Tillary St at Gold St 207 205 210 226 110 118 B31
E224 would not respond until the second alarm. However, if we wanted them to go upon the initial transmission the bells would have been:
426 (to transmit box 426)
5-426-224 (to special call E224)

Back then a box transmission was 1+1. If you were going, you were first due.

kidfrmqns · May 7, 2012

Thanks Frank, I assume you had to do the same for the engine and the truck? Did units ever miss runs? It seems this must have gotten quite confusing during the very busy war years.

68jk09 · May 7, 2012

During the War Years if you got sent to a box especially out of your normal 1st Alarm area you did not know who was 1st or 2nd due since Units were often coming from other boxes .....when you arrived you looked at what other Units ( if any ) were already there & you acted accordingly position wise.

CVILLE7111 · May 7, 2012

Two (2) questions for Frank: Intergraph CADS? Do you foresee a system similar to other cities with the computer-generated voice announcing the alarms? Thanks!