6/27/24 Brooklyn 2nd Alarm Box 2976

Signal73

Signal73

Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Messages
16,683
Fire Location: 416 Ave M

Li-Ion battery fire in a PD

Multiple people rescued

E-330,247,281,253,250
L-172,147,157(Fast),148
B-42,48
R-2
Sq-1
D-15
Rac-5

(4) 10-45s

2nd Alarm
E-276,282,243,309
E-284 w/ Sat. 3
L-156,168,159s/c,118 Act. 147s/c
B-33(FF)
B-43(Safety)
B-41(RUL)
RB,SB
FC
Tac-2
RM-1
CTU
Sq-252 w/ 2nd Piece
HM-1
HMB
Car-8(Staten Island Borough Commander)
 
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8

8060rock

Joined
Feb 9, 2018
Messages
3,284
Signal73 said:
Fire Location: 416 Ave M

Li-Ion battery fire in a PD

Multiple people rescued

E-330,247,281,250,276
L-172,147,156(Fast),148
B-42,48
R-2
Sq-1
D-15
Rac-5

(4) 10-45s

2nd Alarm
E-282,255,243,309
E-284 w/ Sat. 3
L-157,168,159s/c,118 Act. 147s/c
B-33(FF)
B-43(Safety)
B-41(RUL)
RB,SB
FC
Tac-2
RM-1
CTU
Sq-252 w/ 2nd Piece
HM-1
HMB
Click to expand...
E330 gave 10-75, fire 2nd floor of mixed occupancy

L157F

B33: units on scene are requesting a 2nd alarm, we're not 10-84, but we hear that over the HT

B33: units are also requesting multiple ambulances for multiple 10-45s, we're not 10-84 yet

B33: we have (3) 10-45s being assessed by EMS, we have extension to 414 Ave. M - 2 L/S/O

Car 8 responding

B33: we have numerous e-bikes & batteries burning

B33: (4) 10-45s, (1) is being transported - (1) Code 2 & (3) Code 4

FC: as per Car 8 - UC (duration 1 hr. 10 min.)

E310 act. E276
E224 act. E330
E227 act. E255
E245 act. E247
E249 act. E250
E218 act. E249
E279 act. E243
L103 act. L156
L105 act. L172
L111 act. L157
L118 act. L147
B39 act. B33
B57 act. B42
 
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G

GeoC

Joined
Jul 25, 2018
Messages
506
8060rock said:
E330 gave 10-75, fire 2nd floor of mixed occupancy

L157F

B33: units on scene are requesting a 2nd alarm, we're not 10-84, but we hear that over the HT

B33: units are also requesting multiple ambulances for multiple 10-45s, we're not 10-84 yet

B33: we have (3) 10-45s being assessed by EMS, we have extension to 414 Ave. M - 2 L/S/O

Car 8 responding

B33: we have numerous e-bikes & batteries burning

B33: (4) 10-45s, (1) is being transported
Click to expand...

Can only imagine the first arriving units had their hands full. Bn 33 giving reports (not 10-84) for 2nd Alarm and EMS.
L157 designated Fast, 5th. truck responding!
 
seniorofficer

seniorofficer

Joined
Feb 7, 2012
Messages
225
Channel 7 chopper was overhead as first units arrived. Fire was boiling out of the shaft between Exp.1 and 4, but not much smoke showing from 2nd floor front windows. What I couldn't understand (watching on TV) was the OV was in the bucket by himself venting, but couldn't he have initially put the roofman on the roof with the saw? Obvious needed vertical vent wasn't performed for minutes. Also, with units operating inside, why elect to operate a line into the 2nd floor windows from the street?. The old opposing lines theory comes to mind.
Just some thoughts from behind the keyboard.
 
B

BoweryBrawler

Joined
Aug 12, 2022
Messages
26
seniorofficer said:
Channel 7 chopper was overhead as first units arrived. Fire was boiling out of the shaft between Exp.1 and 4, but not much smoke showing from 2nd floor front windows. What I couldn't understand (watching on TV) was the OV was in the bucket by himself venting, but couldn't he have initially put the roofman on the roof with the saw? Obvious needed vertical vent wasn't performed for minutes. Also, with units operating inside, why elect to operate a line into the 2nd floor windows from the street?. The old opposing lines theory comes to mind.
Just some thoughts from behind the keyboard.
Click to expand...
Much quicker to take an adjoining scuttle in those buildings
 
S

scoobyd

Joined
May 16, 2008
Messages
826
No one was rescued. They self evacuated.

OV had to scramble to get into the bucket, over taken by extending fire.

The old opposing lines theory is not totally correct. An exterior line can certainly be used. It must be coordinated with the interior units.

If FDNY Engine Ops are followed correctly, the exterior line is operated "SSSS"- steep angle, steady, solid tip, sprinkler effect.

Simply directing the line at the ceiling inside the window without movement creates no negative effect, ie very little air movement. And thus no "pushing fire".

It seems E 330 felt no ill effective from the exterior line. In fact it likely helped interior conditions, allowing them to make a turn toward the front of the building and make the final push. The exterior line was shut when they made that move.
 
C

Captain784

Joined
Jul 20, 2022
Messages
376
If an exterior hoseline is used, generally it should be used at a steep angle so not to set up an opposing hose stream problem. At times the best thing to do is hit the fire from the outside for a short period of time to reduce the fire. Chicago Fire Dept. calls this "resetting the fire." Once the fire has been reduced interior handline/s can enter the building, after the short time the exterior hoseline or Large Caliber Stream was in operation to complete extinguishment. Normally the exterior handline or a large Caliber Stream is used only for a minute or so as an Aggressive EXTERIOR Attack, then a traditional Aggressive INTERIOR handline/s Attack is made on the remaining fire. Test and actual fires have proven this Transitional Attack methods saves more lives. The concept is the "SSSS" is a great very real idea. Captain Bob Rainey FDNY Engine 26 retired
 
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B

BITBOF

Joined
May 10, 2020
Messages
52
seniorofficer said:
Channel 7 chopper was overhead as first units arrived. Fire was boiling out of the shaft between Exp.1 and 4, but not much smoke showing from 2nd floor front windows. What I couldn't understand (watching on TV) was the OV was in the bucket by himself venting, but couldn't he have initially put the roofman on the roof with the saw? Obvious needed vertical vent wasn't performed for minutes. Also, with units operating inside, why elect to operate a line into the 2nd floor windows from the street?. The old opposing lines theory comes to mind.
Just some thoughts from behind the keyboard.
Click to expand...
I would agree with putting roofman to roof w saw via bucket. Aerial is ideal if maybe 2nd due shows up with ya but never liked adjoining in those tight cluttered scuttles. Didn't see video but was TL positioned to drop off roofman without being in danger on fire lapping out front windows?
While fire in stairway getting knocked down I have no problem with a quick hit from street. May give ov opportunity to grab anyone possibly near window. Wasn't there but like the discussion
 
T

tommyhal&oat

Joined
Feb 7, 2021
Messages
419
BITBOF said:
I would agree with putting roofman to roof w saw via bucket. Aerial is ideal if maybe 2nd due shows up with ya but never liked adjoining in those tight cluttered scuttles. Didn't see video but was TL positioned to drop off roofman without being in danger on fire lapping out front windows?
While fire in stairway getting knocked down I have no problem with a quick hit from street. May give ov opportunity to grab anyone possibly near window. Wasn't there but like the discussion
Click to expand...
Also thinking with it being early morning, reports of people trapped, and fire up the stairs, OV probably made a quick dash to the 2nd floor windows with the bucket to try and make a grab. As important as the roof man is, at the end of the day we're in this to save lives.
 
S

scoobyd

Joined
May 16, 2008
Messages
826
The main problem with an exterior line is air movement or "entrainment". That moves heat and everything else IN to the building instead of out of it.
The reason a nozzleman is taught to whip the line around is so that he creates forward air movement, ideally out a window that has been vented. The FDNY "SSSS" moves very little air when properly applied. It can knock down a room and beyond. The water aimed a the ceiling "maps" along the walls and ceiling, penetrating deeper into the structure and cooling things down.

It is a valuable tool when done right. It is not the primary attack method. Along with SSSS is CC- communicate and coordinate with interior units.
 
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