10-75 Signal Revision

EdMc said:
I believe the third truck should stay da FAST or RIT team, pick your letters. The one thing to remember is fires are hotter, windows don’t vent like early days, conditions are more dangerous to start with today compared to as little as 30 or 40 years ago. We all know those bad conditions can escalate very fast. It is my opinion that we need dat truck in there asap to protect our own.
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I've heard of the FAT engine, the FAST truck, the RIT, but what is the DAT truck?
 
NikFDNY said:
Engines - 25
Trucks - 36
Battalions - 4
Division - 2
Rescue - 6
Squad - 6
RAC - 1

Total of 80 (Or 81 if the RAC gets two FF, cant remember.)
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Division is usually 3. Then plus how many are on the messenger usually another 2
 
If the justification of this program is to reduce the incidence of cancer, it is a complete waste of time, money, and resources.

If the brass wanted to make an impact in reducing cancer, they would have the members quit smoking, drinking, stay out of the sun and maybe get a colonoscopy.
 
The 7-5 All Hands Signal Revision on 10-75 (All Hands) Fires Only starts Monday. It will only apply for when the All Hands is given for 10-75 fires only. Not High Rise Fires. If the chief/aide gives All Hands on arrival he will get the 5 Engines 4 Trucks (3rd always being FAST) If he hits the 10-75 and not the All Hands it’s just the normal 4-3. After the All Hands is transmitted the Chief will be able to call for an additional engine before having to go to the additional alarm. So a 10-75 All Hands Fire will get max up to 6 Engines and unlimited amount of trucks. 2nd Alarm will get a full 4-2. Again this is a pilot program.
 
entropychaser said:
If the justification of this program is to reduce the incidence of cancer, it is a complete waste of time, money, and resources.

If the brass wanted to make an impact in reducing cancer, they would have the members quit smoking, drinking, stay out of the sun and maybe get a colonoscopy.
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One thing at a time brother.

First of all nobody smokes anymore.

Secondly, the big thing I am happily seeing are member sending their gear to get cleaned after operating at a job. Quick turnaround.

Not sure why youd be against this but ok.
 
twoteamtease said:
One thing at a time brother.

First of all nobody smokes anymore.

Secondly, the big thing I am happily seeing are member sending their gear to get cleaned after operating at a job. Quick turnaround.

Not sure why youd be against this but ok.
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www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Cancer is a Preventable Disease that Requires Major Lifestyle Changes

This year, more than 1 million Americans and more than 10 million people worldwide are expected to be diagnosed with cancer, a disease commonly believed to be preventable. Only 5–10% of all cancer cases can be attributed to genetic defects, whereas ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
 
Guess its called the "Over Haul Pilot Program"

Engine & Truck will be assigned on the All Hands (If not already requested)
*Not for 10-76s or 10-77s unless special called

Everything stays the same 3rd due truck is still Fast but All Hands is a total of 5&4

Another engine can be s/c to make it 6 total. Anything after than greater alarm is needed.

Special calling an engine for CFRD or Over Haul Relief will not need a greater Alarm

Nearest available unit will be called after the PWH if needed. Unless for watch line

Units can be special called after the PWH with out needing a great alarm

No more assigning extra 1&1 for window bars

The extra 1&1 don't necessary have to be used for over haul. Can be used for other duties

Totals
2nd Alarm
9 Engines 6 Trucks
3rd Alarm
13 Engines 8 Trucks
4th Alarm
17 Engines 10 Trucks
5th Alarm
21 Engines 12 Trucks


Will go into effect 09:00 04/08/2024 Monday
 
No more 1 and 1 for window bars?

Maybe they figure the first trucks handle it well enough? We certainly have had upgrades in portable power tools which makes this task a lot more efficient for the first couple of OV’s
 
EdMc said:
I drove a Chief in da Bronx in the 80's These same conditions exist in the Forest Hills aread, where the buildings and their entrances mimic Pelham Pkwy.
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EdMc said:
I drove a Chief in da Bronx in the 80's who had a policy that if he said using all hands to also call for an extra Engine and Truck. Reasoning was he would rather have it coming and not use it instead of needing it and not having it. This is in that direction. Also remember that a usual strength is first stretches initial line and second due assists. Third due stretches second line and fourth due assists. In some locations, and I saw it around Pelham Parkway area, it would take the first three Engines to stretch the first line because the stretches where extremely long. This is in conjunction with what Capttomo said above.
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These same conditions exist in the Forest Hills area, where the buildings and their entrances mimic those on Pelham Pkwy.
 
Just remember in the good times when we had 5 (somertimes 6) man engines, you could use All Hands with 3 engines, and have 3 lines stretched and operating. Telling the dispatcher that you had a heavy fire condition meant you had 3 stretched and operating. Medium was 2 lines. Some people today also have no concept of the meaning "fully involved" anymore.
 
NikFDNY said:
Engines - 25
Trucks - 36
Battalions - 4
Division - 2
Rescue - 6
Squad - 6
RAC - 1

Total of 80 (Or 81 if the RAC gets two FF, cant remember.)
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Realistically, Engines should be 20 on average. Officers aren't counted in manpower since they are supervisory personnel; same with ladder officers. (unless you're counting total bodies)
 
Alarm levels, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. were originally established to dispatch a predetermined number of specific companies to a specific location, and to make predetermined relocations, all by sending one telegraph signal. Each additional alarm essentially multiplied the 1st alarm response (sometimes slightly more). The anecdotal correlation was that the number of alarms transmitted reflected the size of the incident, usually a reasonable assumption, but really, only a reflection of the number of units sent.

With the variable number of 1st alarm units, as changed over the years and by areas of the city and by policy revisions and by building specific responses (10-76, 10-77, etc), automatic 2nd alarms, and 10-75 revisions, even the number of units initially sent varies significantly. By total number of units sent, a Midtown 10-77 is a 3rd alarm in residential Queens. Without predetermined response orders or relocations, each incident at a particular box location may differ, from one incident to the next. Comparing 6 and 7 firefighter staffed companies from past decades to today's responses is difficult as they have changed so much.
 
Summary of the Evolution of the “All Hands” Signal

In 2020 the All Hands assignment of 4 engines, 2 ladders + FAST ladder, 2 BC, DC, Rescue, Squad, and RAC replaced the then lesser “10-75” response. The assignments for the two signals became identical.

The 2024 Safety-driven policy change to the All Hands (7-5) assignment increases the engine and ladder assignment and sets forth additional guidelines:

5 Engines, 4 Ladders (3rd is FAST) 2 BC, DC, Rescue, Squad, RAC. The 5th Engine and 4th Ladder are not included in 10-76 or 10-77 signals

One additional engine may be special called; any further units require a higher alarm —however, one more engine may be special called for Overhaul Relief and one for CFR.

When Probably Will Hold, any additional units assigned will be the nearest available.

When Probably Will Hold or Under Control, additional engines may be special called without transmission of a higher alarm.
 
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HCO said:
Summary of the Evolution of the “All Hands” Signal

In 2020 the All Hands assignment of 4 engines, 2 ladders + FAST ladder, 2 BC, DC, Rescue, Squad, and RAC replaced the then lesser “10-75” response. The assignments for the two signals became identical.

The 2024 Safety-driven policy change to the All Hands (7-5) assignment increases the engine and ladder assignment and sets forth additional guidelines:

5 Engines, 4 Ladders (4th is FAST) 2 BC, DC, Rescue, Squad, RAC. The 5th Engine and 4th Ladder are not included in 10-76 or 10-77 signals

One additional engine may be special called; any further units require a higher alarm —however, one more engine may be special called for Overhaul Relief and one for CFR.

When Probably Will Hold, any additional units assigned will be the nearest available.

When Probably Will Hold or Under Control, additional engines may be special called without transmission of a higher alarm.
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The 4th Due is FAST now?? Wouldn't that mean longer times at a job without a FAST Truck in some areas of the City?
 
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