2/23/23 Bronx All Hands Box 2528

8

8060rock

Joined
Feb 9, 2018
Messages
3,409
Address: 162 W. 165 St.

Report of fire MD
6 story 75'x75' Class 3 MD

Maybe,
E68, 92, 93, 71
L49, 44, 45F
B17, 13
S41
R3
D6
RAC3

B17 gave 10-75, fire apt. 5C

L45F

B17 gave All Hands, fire top floor, 2 L/S - 1 L/O

D6: 2 L/S/O

D6: PWH

D6: Secondary searches negative/UC (duration 27 min.)

E59 act. E71
L54 act. L44
L23 act. L45
 
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F

FDNYSTATENISLAND

Joined
Apr 13, 2012
Messages
9,383
On the W165 Street side you can see the main entrance and how it can be 5 floors. However obviously you can see the 6th (ground) floor in red. My question is, on a lot of these buildings the ground floor is pained red to distinguish it from other floors. Is this done for a reason?
 

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3

3511

Joined
Dec 6, 2007
Messages
1,586

Experience

maps.nyc.gov maps.nyc.gov

5 floors, per official City records.
That area painted red is the "ground floor" accessible directly from the street. It is not considered a "story".Screenshot_20230225-170315_Chrome.jpgofficial
 
Signal73

Signal73

Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Messages
17,023
CIDS:
Multiple Dwelling 6 Story 75 X 75 Class 3
Isolated Building Cell Tower on Roof
AKA 1050 Summit Ave

Question if the CIDS say 6. But the Official City Records say 5
Couldn't that effect fire attack & safety of the members?

As you arrive are you going Size up as per CIDS? or you going with 5 story with a ground floor?

Fire on the 1st floor (Red Area) or Fire on the ground floor (Red Area)

Now I am not looking for an argument cuz everyone is entitled to their own opion just trying to help understand why both are different and why they wouldn't just change it to the same information.

Thank You in advance
 
3

3511

Joined
Dec 6, 2007
Messages
1,586
Signal73 said:
CIDS:
Multiple Dwelling 6 Story 75 X 75 Class 3
Isolated Building Cell Tower on Roof
AKA 1050 Summit Ave

Question if the CIDS say 6. But the Official City Records say 5
Couldn't that effect fire attack & safety of the members?

As you arrive are you going Size up as per CIDS? or you going with 5 story with a ground floor?

Fire on the 1st floor (Red Area) or Fire on the ground floor (Red Area)

Now I am not looking for an argument cuz everyone is entitled to their own opion just trying to help understand why both are different and why they wouldn't just change it to the same information.

Thank You in advance
Click to expand...
Your question is valid and it is why I raised this issue to begin with. It makes a difference when an officer is making a size up. If the officer says “fire on the first floor”, that would indicate hoseline stretch up an interior stairwell of the building. Ground floor apartments are accessible directly from the street. Big difference.

I had noticed this a few years ago when there were several fires in the same building over a few months span (I believe it was on Bronx Park South) and the responding chiefs were giving different #s of story’s in their size ups. Same building.

I believe the inconsistency stems from the fact that most of the officers who are feeding the data into CIDS are from suburbia. They have never lived in these buildings are not familiar with the building code criteria for determining how many floors or story’s there are. People (like me) who grew up on these streets and in these structures know the difference by experience. (And I get it wrong at times too.)

We agree that the concern here is the safety of the firefighters. I hold a degree in engineering and consistency in standards is important and not just a matter of opinion. I’m not trying to be argumentative or be a pain in the ass (I probably am 😖), just trying to correct the record for the sake of safety.
 
8

8060rock

Joined
Feb 9, 2018
Messages
3,409
3511, we can agree or disagree until the cows come home as to the actual number of floors, but what we agree/disagree to isn't going to change any info on the CIDS which is what the units initially work off.
I can only speak for myself, but when posting a job, I go by the CIDS that are announced - many times I don't look to see what the fire b'ldg. looks like (google maps, etc.).
If our discussions as to number of floors actually contributed to some type of change, then I could understand the lengthy discourse, but...................Nobody amending CIDS on our account.

BTW, I am "people" like you - born and raised in the Bronx - I would still have said "6 stories"
 
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E

entropychaser

Joined
Jun 27, 2017
Messages
1,179
3511 said:
Your question is valid and it is why I raised this issue to begin with. It makes a difference when an officer is making a size up. If the officer says “fire on the first floor”, that would indicate hoseline stretch up an interior stairwell of the building. Ground floor apartments are accessible directly from the street. Big difference.

I had noticed this a few years ago when there were several fires in the same building over a few months span (I believe it was on Bronx Park South) and the responding chiefs were giving different #s of story’s in their size ups. Same building.

I believe the inconsistency stems from the fact that most of the officers who are feeding the data into CIDS are from suburbia. They have never lived in these buildings are not familiar with the building code criteria for determining how many floors or story’s there are. People (like me) who grew up on these streets and in these structures know the difference by experience. (And I get it wrong at times too.)

We agree that the concern here is the safety of the firefighters. I hold a degree in engineering and consistency in standards is important and not just a matter of opinion. I’m not trying to be argumentative or be a pain in the ass (I probably am 😖), just trying to correct the record for the sake of safety.
Click to expand...
Also having an engineering degree, one great feature of this site that I appreciate is that someone can usually provide the technical underpinning of a current subject.

We live in a complex world and engineers touch every aspect of it. For example, firefighters use a gasoline powered saw regularly. They never give a thought to the expert in tribology who designed and manufactured the blade or the systems engineer who mated it to a power source in such a manner that you can throw it over your shoulder to climb an aerial ladder.
 
jbendick

jbendick

Administrator
Joined
Mar 5, 2007
Messages
118
Having worked as Lieutenant in Eng. 68. I am familiar with these type buildings. There are many in the West Bronx because of the many hills. The easiest way to determine which floor the fire is located on is to use the roof as a point of reference. No matter what floor the fire is on, it is a labor intense stretch. Because of the massive size of some of these buildings, you could stretch anywhere from 10 to 20 lengths or more from the engine.
 
T

t123ken

Joined
Sep 8, 2013
Messages
735
jbendick said:
Having worked as Lieutenant in Eng. 68. I am familiar with these type buildings. There are many in the West Bronx because of the many hills. The easiest way to determine which floor the fire is located on is to use the roof as a point of reference. No matter what floor the fire is on, it is a labor intense stretch. Because of the massive size of some of these buildings, you could stretch anywhere from 10 to 20 lengths or more from the engine.
Click to expand...
How many stories would you say that building is?
 
BronxFireRadio

BronxFireRadio

Joined
Apr 8, 2007
Messages
118
3511 said:
Your question is valid and it is why I raised this issue to begin with. It makes a difference when an officer is making a size up. If the officer says “fire on the first floor”, that would indicate hoseline stretch up an interior stairwell of the building. Ground floor apartments are accessible directly from the street. Big difference.

I had noticed this a few years ago when there were several fires in the same building over a few months span (I believe it was on Bronx Park South) and the responding chiefs were giving different #s of story’s in their size ups. Same building.

I believe the inconsistency stems from the fact that most of the officers who are feeding the data into CIDS are from suburbia. They have never lived in these buildings are not familiar with the building code criteria for determining how many floors or story’s there are. People (like me) who grew up on these streets and in these structures know the difference by experience. (And I get it wrong at times too.)

We agree that the concern here is the safety of the firefighters. I hold a degree in engineering and consistency in standards is important and not just a matter of opinion. I’m not trying to be argumentative or be a pain in the ass (I probably am 😖), just trying to correct the record for the sake of safety.
Click to expand...
Agreed with all of your points. In 2021, there was a 2nd alarm in the Bronx building that I grew up in (and my parents still live in). Size up had it as a six-story, with fire on the fifth floor. When you enter the building, the floors and apartments are all labeled from 1 to 5. The fire was in apartment 41E, on the (what I would call) the fourth floor. Don't get me started on that building's apartment nomenclature - all apartments on the A-wing end in W for west, and the B-wing apartments are E. That was eventually figured out at that job. Certainly not a dig at the members or IC, but worthy of discussion of relevant CIDS and perhaps standardizing apartment numbering. If someone called to say they were trapped on the 4th floor, and the IC thought they were below the fire instead of on the fire floor - no bueno.
When I was a kid, I told someone I lived in apartment 20E and they were like, oh, you live on the 20th floor! Nope, 2nd.
I had also heard at some point that anything 6 floors and above had to have elevators. Not too sure about that or if that's even true.
This is a good discussion (not an argument)! Maybe good for another thread. Let's keep the good ideas and thoughts going.
- Adam
 
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