2 piece engine co.

[fdny1984]

In 1973 the staffing of 2 piece engines was increased by 2 firefighters by a arbitrators award. So to avoid the extra staffing, the department eliminated most of the second pieces. I was wondering if anyone remembers who the last engines were that had 2 pieces, that is a pumper and hose wagon (actually a second pumper). I'm thinking all you war year vets/buffs might know?

 

[guitarman314]

  I believe it was E70 on City Island since they ran with a Telesquirt in the 1980's. I know a couple of Bkln eng. co's. near the waterfront were running 2pc's. into the 70's and in Manhattan E2 had 2pc's.

 

[nfd2004]

Although somewhat different there were also Combo companies. They ran as two piece. One Engine Co and One Ladder Co running together, as one unit. Somewhere on here is made mention of them. G-man probadly has it right on the actual two piece Engine Cos. And I do remember when Eng 70 ran with that telesquirt on City Island.

Under History.... "FDNY's Combo Companies".

 

[guitarman314]

 I believe it was E70 on City Island since they ran with a Telesquirt in the 1980's. I know a couple of Bkln eng. co's. near the waterfront were running 2pc's. into the 70's and in Manhattan E2 had 2pc's.

 I found some info on this in the April 1973 Fire Bell Club News Notes.  Effective at 0900 on March 28, only the following engine companies will be kept at two piece units: E70, 151, 159, 163, 164, 206. The 2nd pumper will be manned by at least 2 firemen at all times and will be in addition to the 5 firemen (plus officer) that man the the 1st piece. In addition to these 6 units, 2 additional units in Richmond, Engines 158 & 165 will still keep their 2nd  pumper which will be unmanned. These 2 rigs will be activated and put in service only during extreme conditions such as unusually high brush fire activity, severe storms, etc. Also mentioned were engine companies that had a 2nd piece up until the end of March 1973. They were: Engine: 9, 155, 156, 162, 166, 201, 202, 224, & 279. To make up for the loss of the 2nd pieces of Engine 202, 224 & 279 that responded to various boxes in the heavy commercial & pier area in Brooklyn's Red Hook & adjacent area; there will be 3 engines assigned on the 1st alarm instead of the usual two. The engines in this area will carry additional hose & fittings for 3-1/2" hose.  

 

[lucky]

I remember working OT in E 206 in the mid seventies. The second piece was usually OOS. The old quarters was infested with mosquitoes and the bunks were covered with netting. You had to unzipper it in the event of a response.

 

[fdny1984]

Thanks for the fire bell info G-man. It would seem like there would have been a lot more than the 17 cos. mentioned. I know from the faj column 50 years after the end of WW II that out of 230 engines 130 still ran with both. I guess in the ensuing 27 or so years they (the hose wagons) slowly disappeared.

 

[guitarman314]

Yes, I have a book showing that in 1946 the following engines with hosewagons: Engine 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 9, 11, 14, 16, 17, 18, 21, 23, 26, 27, 28, 30, 31, 32, 33, 37, 39, 40, 44, 46, 49 (comb. co.), 50, 52, 53, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 69, 71, 73, 74, 75, 76, 81, 82, 83, 84, 88, 89, 90, 91, 93, 96, 151, 152, 154, 156, 158, 159, 161, 162, 163, 201, 202, 203, 204, 206, 209, 211, 216, 217, 219, 220, 221, 224, 225, 226, 228, 229, 230, 231, 233, 234, 235, 236, 237, 238, 239, 246, 247, 249, 251(bkln), 253, 257, 258, 261, 262, 263, 264, 265, 267, 268, 269, 270, 271, 272, 274, 276, 277, 279, 280, 281, 282, 283, 284, 285, 286, 288, 289, 293, 295, 297, 299, 304, 307, 313, 314, 315, 316, 318, & 321. Note that 1946 was when many engines and ladders were in their own single firehouses so they had room for an extra piece. I have a unit organization chart dated Oct 1954 after many single engines and ladders were moved in with others so some that had hosewagons in 1946 could no longer have them. It shows hosewagons at Engine: 1*, 2, 5, 6, 7, 9*, 11, 15, 16, 18, 21, 23, 24*, 27, 28, 30, 31, 32*, 33, 37, 43*, 49*(comb. co.), 52*, 53, 58*, 59, 63, 65*, 70*, 72*, 73, 74*, 79, 83*, 94*, 96*(combo co.), 151*, 154, 156*, 158*, 159*, 162*, 163*, 164*, 201, 202, 203, 206*, 211, 215, 216, 217, 219, 220,  224, 225, 228, 229, 230*, 233, 249*, 257, 258*, 261, 263*, 264*, 265, 269*, 274, 277, 279, 280, 281*, 283, 295, 296, 299, & 304*. (* means hosewagon was a pumper). One last note: There were a couple of combination companies in 1954 that ran with 1951 Ward LaFrance Quads: they were Engine 96, 152, 161, 251, 267, 312 and Ladder 82 was running with one too. 8)

 

[nfd2004]

I remember working OT in E 206 in the mid seventies. The second piece was usually OOS. The old quarters was infested with mosquitoes and the bunks were covered with netting. You had to unzipper it in the event of a response.

  I'm a little off subject here, BUT, Gotta Love those "old days". Although not in FDNY, I worked a few firehouses where the windows rattled all night, snow banked down on the floor "Inside" the windows, and even with our own portable heaters in use, we kept that "inside" snow from melting. We would have been put in a Public Shelter if it was an apartment.  Summer time we ran Huge fans that sounded like DC-10 Jets taking off. Plus with the open windows and no screens, we had our buzzing mosquitoes. But weren't those days just Great.
Back on track. Thanks G-man for that info. I actually didn't realize there were that many two piece companies in my earlier buffing days. I do remember the Combo Companies of Queens and Staten Island (then referred to as Richmond), and Engine 70 in the Bronx.
  I hate to admit it, but that sure was a long time ago. I guess a lot of us are on the "Down Hill Side" now. I remember being slim and having hair on my head. Those South Bronx ladies couldn't keep their eyes off me. Not quite that way these days.

 

[fdny1984]

Right there with you. I remember when a haz-mat call was simply called a gasoline spill! By the way G-Man, what do the astrics mean?

 

[guitarman314]

Right there with you. I remember when a haz-mat call was simply called a gasoline spill! By the way G-Man, what do the astrics mean?

Oops!   I forgot to mention the asterisks mean the hosewagon was actually another pumper. I will correct it. :-[

 

[HCO]

Ladder 76 was also among the companies that originally had 1951 WLF 750 gpm Quads. That one later went to Engine 267 and later to the Department of Correction. Engine 96 later went to Engine 310, later to Engine 323 finally given to the NYC Dept. of Social Services. Engine 252 had the ladder racks removed and became the Relay Hose Wagon. Others going to the Dept. of Correction, after their FDNY career, were Engine 161 and Ladder 82.

 

[guitarman314]

 Thanks, I missed E267 that also had a Quad in 1954, I corrected my post.

 

[manhattan]

OK, curiosity has the better of me - and I have a feeling that the answer is going to be one of those really obvious things - but what use could the Dept. of Social Services possibly have for a retired rig?  I can understand Corrections wanting one for Rikers Island, but Social Services...?

 

[69 METS]

Ladder 76 was also among the companies that originally had 1951 WLF 750 gpm Quads. That one later went to Engine 267 and later to the Department of Correction. Engine 96 later went to Engine 310, later to Engine 323 finally given to the NYC Dept. of Social Services. Engine 252 had the ladder racks removed and became the Relay Hose Wagon. Others going to the Dept. of Correction, after their FDNY career, were Engine 161 and Ladder 82.

I remember 323's Quad. Two of my neighbors were assigned there, they used to bring the rig down my block whenever they had a run in the area.

 

[HCO]

Re the 1951 WLF Quad that was turned over to the Dept.of Social Services: 

This one, Reg.#2613 went to E.96 on 12/3/51, then to E.310 on 2/11/57, then to E.323 on 4/21/66, then a spare on 8/14/69. Then disposed of by FDNY and turned over to Social Services on 1/18/71. It was supposed to be used for fire protection at a Drug Rehab facility on Hart Island. Was there only a very short time and replaced by another 1951 WLF Quad assigned to Dept. of Correction, which took over that facility. Disposal dates of any non-FDNY NYC agency apparatus are not available.

 

[811]

I remember that E206 was the last Engine Company regularly running with two-pieces. I think both were c1965 Mack C-Model diesels, a sharp looking pair.
In the early 1970s a lot of companies had a second piece used as a wagon, but generally only ran on certain boxes, such as waterfront locations.

 

[manhattan]

Thanks, HCO.

 

[fdny1984]

thanks to everyone who has replied to this question. you guys have wealth of knowlege, thanks for sharing it. 

 

[68jk09]

I remember in Aug 1971 when i was in LAD*108 & we moved from Siegel St. to Union Ave.  the 35*Bn  had ENG*206 remove all the hose from the 2nd piece & we utilized it all day to move stuff.

 

[grumpy grizzly]

I know this is primarily a FDNY site but Boston ran several two peice engine companies. As of 12-31-1977 Engines 4,5, and 7 ran 1948 Macks, Engines 8 and 25 ran 1947 Mack HiPress, and E-40 ran a 1950 Mack. Plus  E-26 ran  1970 Ford/Maxim Squrt,E-39 had a 1972 rig, and E-10 ran a Maynard Ford hose weagon.