31 % Increase in Non Structural Fires Due to Manhole Fires

[jlab]

Smoke and gases from smoldering wires can send manhole covers flying — and the results can be disastrous.

Smoke and gases from smoldering wires can send manhole covers flying — and the results can be disastrous.

www.thecity.nyc

 

[Lebby]

Smoke and gases from smoldering wires can send manhole covers flying — and the results can be disastrous.

Smoke and gases from smoldering wires can send manhole covers flying — and the results can be disastrous.

www.thecity.nyc

"Imagine if this were hosting diners instead of cars?"

A potential danger of outdoor dining I hadn't even thought of.

 

[mack]

Smoke and gases from smoldering wires can send manhole covers flying — and the results can be disastrous.

Smoke and gases from smoldering wires can send manhole covers flying — and the results can be disastrous.

www.thecity.nyc

Maybe the aging of NYC's underground power systems is a big factor. Electrical, power, gas, water lines are old. There will probably continue to be leaks and fires in spite of sensors, and ventilated covers and other expensive detectors and Band-Aids. It's hard to fix old.

 

[STAjo]

IMHO - Con Ed bears a Ton of Responsibility here....
between all the Hazards & Service Disruptions &, 40 - 50 Minute Wait for
'Next Available Crew'; OEM ,City & State Public Services Commissions should pressure Con Ed
to provide more Effective & Efficient Power Service to The City.
Anyone Remember LILCO ?

 

[scoobyd]

The over application of road salt is certainly a major factor.

 

[skiLB]

"Imagine if this were hosting diners instead of cars?"

A potential danger of outdoor dining I hadn't even thought of.

Gr8 point Lebby

 

[mack]

Poor salt - gets blamed for everything these days - hypertension, obesity, dehydration, heart disease, edema, kidney illness, anxiety, environmental damage, marine contamination, corrosion to vehicles, potholes - and manhole fires.

 

[soda-acid]

The manhole fire problem has been going on forever. Every winter it's the same story. It's amazing that with all the improvements in technology etc. over the last 50 years they haven't come up with a covering on the cables that resists road salt.

 

[mack]

But still there is the question of why 31% more manhole fires? Do manhole fires spike every year there is a lot of snow? And why is there over-application? Seems like there are other factors than weather - like an aging system? Seems like more money needs to be spent to prevent more fires.

 

[EdMc]

But still there is the question of why 31% more manhole fires? Do manhole fires spike every year there is a lot of snow? And why is there over-application? Seems like there are other factors than weather - like an aging system? Seems like more money needs to be spent to prevent more fires.

When it snows or there is ice the city uses a salt mix for melting. As it works the salt mixes with the water and becomes a corrosive mix which then runs into manholes and onto the wires. This corrosive mix over time eats thru the insolation on the wires. Over time the insolation is gone allowing the wires to arc causing the manhole fires. So yes the more bad weather the more likely you will get manhole fires.

 

[mack]

https://www.weather.gov/media/okx/Climate/CentralPark/monthlyseasonalsnowfall.pdf

I am not debating that bad weather increases the likelihood of manhole fires.

But if you look at NYC snowfall records, why was there a significant spike the past 2 years? The theory does not match snowfall records. If it is as simple as it would seem to be, manhole fires should correspond to the annual weather record - specifically snow. Why haven't there been large increases in manhole fires in the years we have had record snowfalls? 1995, 2010, 2013, 2013 - were much worse. I am only saying that there should be more investigation to a 31% increase of alarms that take a lot of time and resources and are potentially very dangerous. Was maintenance reduced or components changed or something else?

 

[mac8146]

The theory is correct NYC will salt streets if a storm is possibly coming and if it doesn’t drop a lot of snow the salt is already on roads and washed into system. They are proactive with salting in recent years if forecast calls for snow, I think it comes from the storm that they did no preparations and got caught with gridlock throughout the city and massive tie ups. the infrastructure is weak in the underground systems and corrosion of cables with the wet salt mixture fuels the fires and manhole explosions.

 

[mack]

Thanks Mac. That makes sense. I guess the proactive salting will maintain manhole fires at an increased level.

 

[Mike M]

The theory is correct NYC will salt streets if a storm is possibly coming and if it doesn’t drop a lot of snow the salt is already on roads and washed into system. They are proactive with salting in recent years if forecast calls for snow, I think it comes from the storm that they did no preparations and got caught with gridlock throughout the city and massive tie ups. the infrastructure is weak in the underground systems and corrosion of cables with the wet salt mixture fuels the fires and manhole explosions.

100% spot on... they panic now and salt out the door in the 40's and 50's even though no frozen precip is forecast for another six hours. By that time, anything put down is already gone. All a direct result of December 2010. They just refuse to get caught with their pants down again. Screwing up guys' plans and it's only getting worse. They have a big dartboard at Worth Street and they say 'what can do we do to screw things up more' before they throw it. The amount of money wasted is astonishing.