4 EMS workers barred from duty after chokehold death
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Bulldog
Bulldog
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Fortunately the EMS workers were not FDNY but it still a terrible situation! NYPD had a major overreaction and definitely violated procedures which is inexcusable. The fact that the EMS workers just stood by and did nothing to aid the patient is even worse!
I watched that Vid. Several Times ... I was somewhat puzzled by her (EMT) Inaction,
but thought; she must have got a Pulse ...
Even So, her failure to provide adequate Emergency Care; o2, Sitting the Pt. Upright,
Stethoscope-Check for Breath Sounds... was pathetic, and made a Bad Situation Worse.
but thought; she must have got a Pulse ...
Even So, her failure to provide adequate Emergency Care; o2, Sitting the Pt. Upright,
Stethoscope-Check for Breath Sounds... was pathetic, and made a Bad Situation Worse.
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Even though they are not FDNY employees FDNY is still in charge of the system. From what I am gathering and I do not know those EMS workers at all, they have been restricted by FDNY, meaning they cannot answer 911 calls until they have been cleared by FDNY. There is no time frame for that.
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Bulldog said:
Can you please elaborate on how NYPD violated procedures?
Bulldog
Bulldog
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To start with the use of a chokehold is strictly forbidden by NYPD and every other Police Department that I know of. They also quite obviously used excessive physical force, especially once the target was incapacitated. They also never told him, at least on the video, that he was under arrest and what the charges were! There obviously are some other questionable things to but these are good place to start.scamall dubh said:
Actually, if you had bothered reading the story it actually stated that using a chokehold was against NYPD procedures and that the officer who had used it was on indefinite suspension.
Bulldog, while it is easy to get caught up in the emotion of events such as these, there are several mistakes in the reporting and descriptions of the event.
1. The hold used is a compliance hold not a chokehold. A chokehold is applied in a different manner and causes a person to temporarily loss consciousness. This did not occur in this event as evidenced by the verbalization by Mr. Gardner.
2. There is no force applied at all once Gardner is handcuffed. He continues to struggle once taken to the ground, further evidence that he was fully conscious. What was excessive?
3. The " chokehold" was in place for about 12 seconds based on the video, generally not enough to cause LOC much less permanent damage.
4. Gardner was advised he was under arrest, that is when he begins to physically struggle, also the police are not required to advise of reason for arrest at time of arrest although most times it does happen. It is apparent from Gardner's demeanor that he is aware of the offense even before the confrontation becomes physical.
5. Most people seem to forget that if Eric Gardner had been compliant with a lawful arrest, we would not be having this discussion.
While mistakes might have been made, NYPD did not cause this situation.
1. The hold used is a compliance hold not a chokehold. A chokehold is applied in a different manner and causes a person to temporarily loss consciousness. This did not occur in this event as evidenced by the verbalization by Mr. Gardner.
2. There is no force applied at all once Gardner is handcuffed. He continues to struggle once taken to the ground, further evidence that he was fully conscious. What was excessive?
3. The " chokehold" was in place for about 12 seconds based on the video, generally not enough to cause LOC much less permanent damage.
4. Gardner was advised he was under arrest, that is when he begins to physically struggle, also the police are not required to advise of reason for arrest at time of arrest although most times it does happen. It is apparent from Gardner's demeanor that he is aware of the offense even before the confrontation becomes physical.
5. Most people seem to forget that if Eric Gardner had been compliant with a lawful arrest, we would not be having this discussion.
While mistakes might have been made, NYPD did not cause this situation.
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Bulldog said:
I did read the article. Written by a rag newspaper.
A little lesson for you :
Don't always believe what you read.
As Warner Wolf used to say; Let's go to the video tape"
Video tape shows that this is not a choke hold.
You should refrain from commenting any further because you are embarrassing yourself.
From the New York Police Department Patrol Guide, 2004 Edition:
PG 203-11
Use of Force
The primary duty of all members of the service is to preserve human life. Only that amount of force necessary to overcome resistance will be used to effect an arrest or take a mentally ill or emotionally disturbed person into custody. Deadly physical force will be used ONLY as a last resort and consistent with Department policy and the law.
At the scene of a police incident, many members of the service may be present and some members may not be directly involved in taking police actions. However, this does not relieve any member present of the obligation to ensure that the requirements of the law and Department regulations are complied with. Members of the service are required to maintain control or intervene if the use of force against a subject clearly becomes excessive. Failure to do so may result in both criminal and civil liability. EXCESSIVE FORCE WILL NOT BE TOLERATED.
Members of the New York City Police Department will NOT use chokeholds. A chokehold shall include, but is not limited to, any pressure to the throat or windpipe, which may prevent or hinder breathing or reduce intake of air.
( Underline Mine; Cap.s by NYPD )
Does the Vid. show P.O. Pantaleo Apply a Hold which involves "any pressure to the throat or windpipe, which may prevent or hinder breathing or reduce intake of air. " ?
PG 203-11
Use of Force
The primary duty of all members of the service is to preserve human life. Only that amount of force necessary to overcome resistance will be used to effect an arrest or take a mentally ill or emotionally disturbed person into custody. Deadly physical force will be used ONLY as a last resort and consistent with Department policy and the law.
At the scene of a police incident, many members of the service may be present and some members may not be directly involved in taking police actions. However, this does not relieve any member present of the obligation to ensure that the requirements of the law and Department regulations are complied with. Members of the service are required to maintain control or intervene if the use of force against a subject clearly becomes excessive. Failure to do so may result in both criminal and civil liability. EXCESSIVE FORCE WILL NOT BE TOLERATED.
Members of the New York City Police Department will NOT use chokeholds. A chokehold shall include, but is not limited to, any pressure to the throat or windpipe, which may prevent or hinder breathing or reduce intake of air.
( Underline Mine; Cap.s by NYPD )
Does the Vid. show P.O. Pantaleo Apply a Hold which involves "any pressure to the throat or windpipe, which may prevent or hinder breathing or reduce intake of air. " ?
Bulldog
Bulldog
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It should also be noted that the victim (alleged perpetrator) at no time threatened to the police officers nor attempted to leave the area. He was talking to the police officers prior to being tackled by them. The entire incident was handled very unprofessional.
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Bulldog said:
Yet he failed to comply with a lawful order, that significant detail seems to be lost on you. He was a frequent flyer through the system, and as such should have known that had he complied, he would've been processed and probably gotten a DAT. The process at Staten Island APO, 6 hours tops and he would be back out. Once he moved his arms while the officers were attempting to cuff him HE began the sequence of events. How's about giving the guys with the shields, the EMTs and Paramedics who were at the job the benefit of the doubt instead of Monday morning quarterbacking on an internet forum.
I'm sure you've heard the term "believe half of what you see and none of what you hear." Keep that in mind when reading anything divulged by the NYC "Media" as they have already picked the winners and losers.