5/30/20 Manhattan Multiple Protest Related Unusual Incidents

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( FDNY OPERATE AT MULTIPLE NYPD VEHICLE FIRES - MANHATTAN ) - FDNY COURAGEOUSLY AND DANGEROUSLY BATTLING MULTIPLE NYPD RMP FIRES DELIBERATELY SET BY "SICK VIOLENT PROTESTERS" ON THE STREETS IN THE UNION SQUARE AREA OF MANHATTAN IN NEW YORK CITY.
 

BK_1253

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I'll preface this by saying I don't condone or defend violence against people or the theft or destruction of property under any circumstances. I do think that what happens during protests is complex and unpredictable, and usually there is plenty of blame to go around on all sides when they turn violent and destructive.

Historically, groups with an agenda have sought to spark violence during protests. There are well documented instances of this over the past 150 years or so in many places, including the US. At times it has been the police using officers in plain clothes (or paid civilians) to commit violence, seeking justification to disperse crowds or to punish protestors, and at others it has been groups with extreme viewpoints seeking to create chaos. Sometimes it's a group that believes that violence is the only way to make a message heard or foment change. Sometimes it's a group looking to discredit the cause of the protestors. And sometimes it's just angry, unruly people looking to loot.

Sometimes, protests become violent when police and the governments behind them consider the protestors to be the problem rather than the issue that led to the protests. Peaceful protestors are confronted, and the police try to exert control even when aside from disruption, no harm to people or property is being done. People get angry when they're treated unjustly or disrespected, and in groups, emotions are magnified and can very quickly escalate. All it takes then is one small act on either side to trigger a riot. Past that point, violence doesn't become justified, but it is definitely understandable. Once it starts, everyone involved bears a responsibility to try and de-escalate the situation. More fists, rocks, tear gas, clubs or handcuffs won't help the situation, it just throws fuel on the flames.

We can look at what happened in Flint, MI and Camden, NJ and learn something. There, police acknowledged the wrong that the people were protesting. They joined with the protestors instead of confronting them, and in those cities - both of which have struggled with crime, poverty and racial tensions - there was peace instead of riots and looting, and destruction.
 

BK_1253

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It is Antifa and the DNC who is paying for the riots or Terrorist which is what they are!
You say that with such confidence, but cite no evidence.

Think about whose interests are served by violence and looting. It turns the focus away from the issue of police brutality and abuse of power. That doesn't help the cause of the DNC, to say nothing of your Antifa bogeyman.

Anyway, I'm not going to change your mind. But if you think the government should be killing citizens without a trial, it puts your patriotism and decency into question. If that issue were being seriously addressed and people were not being denied their constitutional rights every day, these protests wouldn't have happened. You'd think that people in favor of limited government and individual freedom would be out there marching too. There's only one reason I can think of that they'd be on the side of oppressive, violent, and unconstitutional enforcement of laws instead.
 
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mack

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Aug 8, 2009
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6,316
I'll preface this by saying I don't condone or defend violence against people or the theft or destruction of property under any circumstances. I do think that what happens during protests is complex and unpredictable, and usually there is plenty of blame to go around on all sides when they turn violent and destructive.

Historically, groups with an agenda have sought to spark violence during protests. There are well documented instances of this over the past 150 years or so in many places, including the US. At times it has been the police using officers in plain clothes (or paid civilians) to commit violence, seeking justification to disperse crowds or to punish protestors, and at others it has been groups with extreme viewpoints seeking to create chaos. Sometimes it's a group that believes that violence is the only way to make a message heard or foment change. Sometimes it's a group looking to discredit the cause of the protestors. And sometimes it's just angry, unruly people looking to loot.

Sometimes, protests become violent when police and the governments behind them consider the protestors to be the problem rather than the issue that led to the protests. Peaceful protestors are confronted, and the police try to exert control even when aside from disruption, no harm to people or property is being done. People get angry when they're treated unjustly or disrespected, and in groups, emotions are magnified and can very quickly escalate. All it takes then is one small act on either side to trigger a riot. Past that point, violence doesn't become justified, but it is definitely understandable. Once it starts, everyone involved bears a responsibility to try and de-escalate the situation. More fists, rocks, tear gas, clubs or handcuffs won't help the situation, it just throws fuel on the flames.

We can look at what happened in Flint, MI and Camden, NJ and learn something. There, police acknowledged the wrong that the people were protesting. They joined with the protestors instead of confronting them, and in those cities - both of which have struggled with crime, poverty and racial tensions - there was peace instead of riots and looting, and destruction.
Sorry, BK, but I disagree with you. If you think that the protests and demonstrations following the heinous murder that happened in Minneapolis would have "unpredictable" results, you should research more of the history which you claim gives you well-documented instances of violence committed by plainclothes officers to justify punishing protestors. You are entitled to your opinions. This forum is, however, not intended to be a place to argue political beliefs. It also should not be a place to unjustly bash our law enforcement brothers and sisters who are being openly attacked across our country following the actions of a few. Flint MI and Camden NJ are also hardly model cities to look at or learn from.

Please be considerate in what you are saying and also recognize many of us have probably seen many more protests and riots than you have and may not believe that law enforcement brothers and sisters, who are being required to perform their duties in these very dangerous settings, are doing so knowingly directed to be understrength and restricted in their abilities to protect themselves, our people, our properties.
 
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BK_1253

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Dec 8, 2018
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Sorry, BK, but I could not disagree with you more. If you think that the protests and demonstrations following the heinous murder that happened in Minneapolis would have "unpredictable" results, you should research more of the history which you claim gives you well-documented instances of violence committed by plainclothes officers to justify punishing protestors. You are entitled to your opinions. This forum is, however, not intended to be a place to argue political beliefs. It also should not be a place to unjustly bash our law enforcement brothers and sisters who are being openly attacked across our country following the actions of a few. Flint MI and Camden NJ are also hardly model cities to look at or learn from.

Please be considerate in what you are saying and also recognize many of us have probably seen many more protests and riots than you have and may not believe that law enforcement brothers and sisters, who are being required to perform their duties in these very dangerous settings, are doing so knowingly directed to be understrength and restricted in their abilities to protect themselves, our people, our properties.
I understand what you're saying. I don't mean to disrespect individual officers or even law enforcement in general. And I'll leave it at that. Thank you for your reasonable response.
 

69 METS

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757
You say that with such confidence, but cite no evidence.

Think about whose interests are served by violence and looting. It turns the focus away from the issue of police brutality and abuse of power. That doesn't help the cause of the DNC, to say nothing of your Antifa bogeyman.

Anyway, I'm not going to change your mind. But if you think the government should be killing citizens without a trial, it puts your patriotism and decency into question. If that issue were being seriously addressed and people were not being denied their constitutional rights every day, these protests wouldn't have happened. You'd think that people in favor of limited government and individual freedom would be out there marching too. There's only one reason I can think of that they'd be on the side of oppressive, violent, and unconstitutional enforcement of laws instead.
ANTIFA is real. Low life scum with deep pockets fund them. The violence and arson is premeditated and committed by ANTIFA. ANTIFA has been strategically prepositioning palletts of bricks and vehicles loaded with Molotov cocktails to insure ready resupply for their troops. Local and federal authorities have already confirmed that this is occurring. My neighbor (a police officer) arrested several ANTIFA goons several nights ago. They were found to be coordinating criminal activities via walkie talkies. Make no mistake, they are well funded, trained and organized.
 
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