5th alarm, 3rd ave and 39th st.

[firemanjimg]

In the mid 1970,s we (7truck) had the same 75 X 100 one story tax payer.  Fire thru the roof,  heavy fire condition blowing out the windows when we rolled up.  Went to a 2nd alarm with maybe 2 extra trucks.  How can a 1 story 75 X 100 go to a 5th alarm?  No tower ladders there either, just rear mounts, all interior attack.
Beyond me!
Firemanjimg

 

[vbcapt]

any exposure problems ?

 

[londonfireguy]

If its anything like what we do over here in the UK, its all about safety, dynamic risk assessments, and 'risk v benefits'.
Every action and risk taken needs to be justified, if there is no life risk, then why risk a life, go to an exterior attack and 'wash it down the road'.

I get the impression that the 5th alarm was a single story structure, seperated from its adjacent structures my either solid brick walls or unnatached, with no life risk, therfore, commiting firefighters into such a situation, risking their lives for very little benefits other than saving a building so the owner can continue trading, i dont think is justifiable any more, its not right, and in all reality, never was, it was just an accepted practice of our profession. Not any more, and i think the Incident commanders decision to go exterior, at the stage he did, going from the run downs, was the right one. But still, 12 FFs, it was reported on internet news feeds,, were injured, how and why??.

You can replce a building, you can not replace a person.

Just my thoughts.

JT

 

[LosBomberos2811]

In the mid 1970,s we (7truck) had the same 75 X 100 one story tax payer.  Fire thru the roof,  heavy fire condition blowing out the windows when we rolled up.  Went to a 2nd alarm with maybe 2 extra trucks.  How can a 1 story 75 X 100 go to a 5th alarm?  No tower ladders there either, just rear mounts, all interior attack.
Beyond me!
Firemanjimg

Much has changed since then.  Reduced manning, equipment, heavier fire loads and relief come to mind.  Much of the fire could not be reached b/c we had to wait for it to burn through the membrane roof that had fallen in and cover many pockets.  The 5th was due impart by companies going to work, then being relived and sent home.  There was an exposure problem on 4 and 3.  4 was opened up mostly on the 1st and second floors, floors and wall cut and ceiling pulled.  We have also learned that with the construction and renovations of today and the heavy weight on the roof, its just not worth putting members in harms way when there is no life hazard.  Fire was throughout the duct work and in the cockloft once they started to open up.  Also a few times it was thought fire had extended into exp 4, and more companies where put to work and additional ones called in.