7/6/23 Marine Units

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Feehan, 343 and the Battalion fast boat are still onsite as of 1525hrs.

Also looks like the tanker at the lube oil terminal (red vessel) is being pulled off by the Mary Turecamo/Laura Moran so the large salvage tug Atlantic Enterprise is now alongside pressing the Grande Costa DaVorio off the pier face. This likely indicates the vessel does not have its own power to maintain winch tension at this time.
 
This just goes to show the need for More Not Less, But More Large Fireboats/Marine Units in the FDNY and all major fire departments. Just because a fireboat is not used daily. Thay are must when Ship or large pier or waterfront fires happen. The use of fireboats and marine Units can be spread across areas in a regional basis, as was done in this tragic incident. The N.Y. Port Authority can and should provide more in the way of Fireboat/Marine units to the Port of N.Y./N.J. since they have authority over many of the port facilities on both the N.Y. and N.J. sides of the waterways. It is time for the N.Y.P.A. to step up to protect this valuable port of entry. Captain Bob Rainey FDNY Engine 26 retired
 
Captain784 said:
This just goes to show the need for More Not Less, But More Large Fireboats/Marine Units in the FDNY and all major fire departments. Just because a fireboat is not used daily. Thay are must when Ship or large pier or waterfront fires happen. The use of fireboats and marine Units can be spread across areas in a regional basis, as was done in this tragic incident. The N.Y. Port Authority can and should provide more in the way of Fireboat/Marine units to the Port of N.Y./N.J. since they have authority over many of the port facilities on both the N.Y. and N.J. sides of the waterways. It is time for the N.Y.P.A. to step up to protect this valuable port of entry. Captain Bob Rainey FDNY Engine 26
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Didn't the FDNY want to go with smaller boats pre 911 when the 2 new boat fiasco started? Then 911 changed their minds.
 
airbusboeing said:
would that be why they got the alpha and bravo boats to have both small and big boats
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Don't know. I know a past chief of the Marine Division as it was known then. He was telling me the problems with the Alfred Ronaldson and it's sister. Which is why the boats were never accepted and went to a prolonged legal battle. Only new boat at the time went to M6, which is about the same size they have now.

Looking at it logically, with the new big boats, there's places the big boats can't operate. Either their restricted by air draft or their water draft. So having smaller boats make sense to get where the big boats can't. I know there too tall to get into Shellbank Creek or Hawtree Creek both in Howard Beach. The trestle on the north side doesn't open, like the south one does or did, and the Cross Bay Bridge would limit them also. Their probably too deep to get into Thurston Basin, which is on the east side of JFK, where more then a few planes have gone over the end of the runway. And that's just south Queens. I'm sure there's more areas the big boats can't get into.

I don't remember what the Bravo boats are, but from my understanding, the Alpha and Bravo are dedicated to Fire and the other EMS. Not sure why they need 2 except for space reasons but it seems to work.

I know 911 was a wakeup call in more ways then 1. When the powers that be realized they relied on a former FDNY marine unit among the remaining big boats due to a decimated infrastructure for several days, it opened more then a few eyes and the Marine Divisions replacement priorities changed.
 
airbusboeing said:
would that be why they got the alpha and bravo boats to have both small and big boats
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M1 takes M1A for calls mainly M1B doesn’t have a pump it’s for EMS Calls…. For reports of fire they will take 343…. Same applies for M9….. M6 has the Feehan which they really take that to everything I believe their M6B is being used at M1B since the accident…. M6A and MB also with them….

Alphas can flow 1,000gpm
Bravos for EMS
SCUBA Boat EMS
Marine Battalion 1,000gpm
M3 M4 M8 are all 1,000gpm
 
Signal73 said:
What’s behind Marine 4 and in from of Marine 6

I forgot

Marine 3 not in the water



View attachment 36538View attachment 36539
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first pic Marine 4 that’s the old one they have a newer one now I believe. Not sure what’s behind it they move they boats around looks older might even be a SE boat or old M8 and the one to the right looks like the SCUBA boat Rescue guys use it for training divers.

Second pic looks like M6A Feehan which is the main M6 boat and then the Braviest which sometimes goes inservice as M2 but it’s the old M6
 
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Marine 1 still onscene and nosed up as of 0825hrs. I wonder if they are still running water onto the fire
 
Captain784 said:
This just goes to show the need for More Not Less, But More Large Fireboats/Marine Units in the FDNY and all major fire departments.
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I don't know if FDNY has the stomach for another round of big boats, the current two have had their fair share of issues and teething problems. I'm 99% sure thats why the asset investment on the Marine Division side has been towards increased capability smaller vessels like the Feehan and Bravest, augmented by the SAFE boat fleet.

RCL said:
Looking at it logically, with the new big boats, there's places the big boats can't operate. Either their restricted by air draft or their water draft. So having smaller boats make sense to get where the big boats can't. I know there too tall to get into Shellbank Creek or Hawtree Creek both in Howard Beach. The trestle on the north side doesn't open, like the south one does or did, and the Cross Bay Bridge would limit them also. Their probably too deep to get into Thurston Basin, which is on the east side of JFK, where more then a few planes have gone over the end of the runway. And that's just south Queens. I'm sure there's more areas the big boats can't get into.

I know 911 was a wakeup call in more ways then 1. When the powers that be realized they relied on a former FDNY marine unit among the remaining big boats due to a decimated infrastructure for several days, it opened more then a few eyes and the Marine Divisions replacement priorities changed.
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Exactly right. I believe 343 and Fire Fighter II were largely federally funded with post 9/11 grants so FDNY outfitted them for the calamity we were all pretty sure was right around the corner. In the end you have a pair of immensely powerful vessels with CBRN capabilities but also cant reach a good amount of the harbor fringes due to their drafts.

In the end, the fleet upgrades to much of the harbors the commercial ship assist tug fleet (Moran & McAllister primarily) to FiFi 1 standards or better has augmented the otherwise lacking coverage in Newark Bay and the Kills around Staten Island.

Captain784 said:
The N.Y. Port Authority can and should provide more in the way of Fireboat/Marine units to the Port of N.Y./N.J. since they have authority over many of the port facilities on both the N.Y. and N.J. sides of the waterways. It is time for the N.Y.P.A. to step up to protect this valuable port of entry. Captain Bob Rainey FDNY Engine 26 retired
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I've always been surprised that the Port Authority didn't/doesn't have a dedicated fire department inside of Port Elizabeth that is specifically trained in internal shipboard firefighting and cargo fires of all kinds. When I worked down there if there was an emergency, accident or a crewmember jumped ship you'd get the full alphabet soup of agencies onscene in a heartbeat, yet for fires the job was left to neighboring agencies.
 
FFM1938 said:
I've always been surprised that the Port Authority didn't/doesn't have a dedicated fire department inside of Port Elizabeth that is specifically trained in internal shipboard firefighting and cargo fires of all kinds. When I worked down there if there was an emergency, accident or a crewmember jumped ship you'd get the full alphabet soup of agencies onscene in a heartbeat, yet for fires the job was left to neighboring agencies.
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I can almost guarantee that they'll announce one within a year now.
 
FFM1938 said:
I don't know if FDNY has the stomach for another round of big boats, the current two have had their fair share of issues and teething problems. I'm 99% sure thats why the asset investment on the Marine Division side has been towards increased capability smaller vessels like the Feehan and Bravest, augmented by the SAFE boat fleet.


Exactly right. I believe 343 and Fire Fighter II were largely federally funded with post 9/11 grants so FDNY outfitted them for the calamity we were all pretty sure was right around the corner. In the end you have a pair of immensely powerful vessels with CBRN capabilities but also cant reach a good amount of the harbor fringes due to their drafts.

In the end, the fleet upgrades to much of the harbors the commercial ship assist tug fleet (Moran & McAllister primarily) to FiFi 1 standards or better has augmented the otherwise lacking coverage in Newark Bay and the Kills around Staten Island.


I've always been surprised that the Port Authority didn't/doesn't have a dedicated fire department inside of Port Elizabeth that is specifically trained in internal shipboard firefighting and cargo fires of all kinds. When I worked down there if there was an emergency, accident or a crewmember jumped ship you'd get the full alphabet soup of agencies onscene in a heartbeat, yet for fires the job was left to neighboring agencies.
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Pretty sure your right, the 2 big boats were paid for in part by federal grants. I dont think FDNY put too much money towards them. Maybe 10% In which case its a win. I dont know how much the teething problems were self inflicted, ie due to the contract wording or if it was from the manufacturer. Probably both. With a sprinkling of growing pains. I think New York is in the proverbial catch 22. NY has a lot of very high profile potential targets. And normal day to day issues. Ship traffic is picking up dramatically. Which also makes the likelihood of an issue greater.

Having that large of a pumping capacity is a no brainer also. If that ship burned off shore, and only boats the size of the FEEHAN were available, your talking not even 1/5 of the pumping capacity. The ship would likely burn to the waterline. Assuming it could even get there during certain weather conditions. So there's limitations on the small boats also. Just me but I think they found a good mix of big and small boats.

I don't remember where I saw it, but apparently the big boats at least, are only 1 member short of running 2 boats simultaneously. I think. Someone else may know. I know by CG rules they have to have a certain number of licensed crew onboard in certain spots. Adding that extra member during certain times of the year may become beneficial.

Something else I found out. Apparently the PA has divested a lot of their property. Where previously they had a hand in operating it. A lot of it is now run by a 3rd party and the Port just collects a direct deposit. So somehow I'm not surprised that things are being over looked. Even then, there's a very dangerous mind set of, well it didn't happen yesterday so it probably won't happen tomorrow, so why pay for.........( insert favorite argument here) unfortunately, like many other things, it takes a disaster to get things changed.

Going foward, I can see Newark adding a FDNY marine unit, and some FDNY special ops units to the port assignment. Maybe even a foam unit or 2 if it involves the tank farms. That's an easy fix that doesnt cost anything and doesn't take too long to implement.
 
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