I recently came across a photo of a 1965 Mack C95 pumper assigned to Engine Co. 158 back in the day. The strange part is, it's marked as 158(2). According to Mike Boucher's excellent listings, Engine 158 doesn't show a second section. As a matter of fact none of the S.I. companies show any second sections. Any idea why this engine would be marked as a second section?
A Staten Island engine question
- Thread starter Ex-Chief
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1965 Mack 1000 GPM Model C95D FDNY Shop # 1321 was first assigned to Engine 41. Then it was assigned to Engine 206 as a 2nd piece. Then assigned to Engine 158 as a 2nd piece.
Picture when assigned to Engine 206 - 2nd piece is in background.
I don't know why it would be marked as 158-2.
Picture when assigned to Engine 206 - 2nd piece is in background.
I don't know why it would be marked as 158-2.
Thanks for your response, Mack. I'm confused though. Is there a difference between a 2nd "piece and a 2nd "section"? During the "War Years" busy companies were given a second unit that was designated with a small '2' following the company number on the pumper/truck. Is (was) this the same as a 2nd "piece" that you are describing? If not, please explain the difference. Thanks in advance.
Second sections were two separate units, each with a captain, three lieutenants, and about twenty five firemen. They counted as two separate units on a response. Units with two pieces of apparatus were a takeoff on the old pumper and hose wagon. The two pumpers responded with one officer and four or five firemen and counted as one engine on a response. The second pumper could be staffed with firemen on recall or overtime and then respond as a separate unit during brush fire season.
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A two piece company operated with two apparatus staffed by one crew with one officer. The two apparatus operated together with one unit identity (for example - Engine 99). Most commonly, this would be a pumper and a hose wagon, but it could also be two pumpers. To your original question, Engine 158, at that time, would have been Engine 158's engine (1), and Engine 158's pumper (2).Ex-Chief said:
Second section companies were (none at present) two fully and separately staffed companies, each with their own fully equipped apparatus, operating from the same station and sharing the same area and assignments. They were established to increase the availability of very busy companies in key locations. Their shared identity was distinguished by one (1) or two (2). For example, Ladder 99-1 and Ladder 99-2 and spoken as ninety nine, one and ninety nine, two.
Anticipating your next question, yes, a first or second section company could also be a two piece company. It was actually quite common among the early two section companies of the horse drawn era.
Two piece companies have essentially been phased out although the six engines that staff the six satellites are technically a pumper and a hose wagon with one crew. Some of SOC support companies also operate with two apparatus.
Second section companies do not presently exist although a relocating company may be referred to as a second section of the company that they relocated to, especially when more than one company has been relocated to the same house. (Example, the first, second, and third company to relocate to a house might be differentiated by: Original Engine 99 would be the first section, the first relocator would be the second section, the second relocator would be the third section, etc.)
Hopefully the dispatchers can elaborate if things have changed.
Thank you all. You know, just when you think you know something, something else comes along and throws everything akimbo. I guess I always thought that "two piece" and "2nd section" were one and the same thing. Ah well! Count the day lost if you don't learn something new. Thanks again.