FDNY/DCAS RFP issued for prototype apparatus

A

airbusboeing

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Mar 7, 2023
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301
it would have regenerative braking so on nyc highways it shouldn't be so bad as there is a lot of stop and go traffic
 
A

airbusboeing

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Mar 7, 2023
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301
add small solar panels on top of the rig so for example l76 going to l53 besides regenerative braking a solar panel collecting energy
 
Bulldog

Bulldog

Bulldog
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Apr 16, 2008
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2,305
Skyler Fire said:
I believe the Mustangs are doing 200 hours full charged
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I was wondering about that and look to the specifications they say it's good for 300 miles between charges. Of course the way New York City traffic is that could be about 200 hours on some days.
 
Skyler Fire

Skyler Fire

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3,423
Bulldog said:
I was wondering about that and look to the specifications they say it's good for 300 miles between charges. Of course the way New York City traffic is that could be about 200 hours on some days.
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That’s just what one of the officers told me not 100% I’ll ask around
 
R

RCL

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Bulldog said:
Unfortunately, while this was a joke I don't expect it to be too long before something like this actually happens! Between a nationwide push for clean energy, New York's Mayor and the new commissioner it's bound to happen before long!
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All ready happened in Los Angeles and at least 1 other major dept I can think of off hand. Havent really heard the results of how well its doing out there. LA has 1 in service for a front line engine.

Here's 1 major question. What do you do in the event of a major climate type emergency? Like California is prone to earthquakes among other things. What happens when there is no power to recharge? Could potentially happen in NYC with noreasters flooding some areas.
 
F

Fabi

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May 25, 2020
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The Berlin Fire Department had one Rosenbauer RT for tests for one year, where they had tested it on the four busiest stations. In the German press it was mentioned that they used the range extender online a few times then they were on the way back to the station after the call.
Berlin kept the first RT and has ordered at least another 5 on top till now. So they seem to be pretty happy with it.

RCL said:
All ready happened in Los Angeles and at least 1 other major dept I can think of off hand. Havent really heard the results of how well its doing out there. LA has 1 in service for a front line engine.

Here's 1 major question. What do you do in the event of a major climate type emergency? Like California is prone to earthquakes among other things. What happens when there is no power to recharge? Could potentially happen in NYC with noreasters flooding some areas.
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The RT has a range extender. So normally you do everything batterie powered and you charge them in the station. If you've to stay longer on a call or multiple calls back to back, the diesel range extender kicks in and powers a generator to load your batteries and to power your pump.
 
R

RCL

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Fabi said:
The Berlin Fire Department had one Rosenbauer RT for tests for one year, where they had tested it on the four busiest stations. In the German press it was mentioned that they used the range extender online a few times then they were on the way back to the station after the call.
Berlin kept the first RT and has ordered at least another 5 on top till now. So they seem to be pretty happy with it.


The RT has a range extender. So normally you do everything batterie powered and you charge them in the station. If you've to stay longer on a call or multiple calls back to back, the diesel range extender kicks in and powers a generator to load your batteries and to power your pump.
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That range extender has a limited span also. And your back to using gas or diesel.
Something else I need to try and find for curiosity, is compartment space. It does t look like the hose beds are fairly low.storing ladders and hard suction inside eats up a lot of real estate also.
 
F

Fabi

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I wouldn't call it a hybrid, as the diesel can't power the truck to drive. The diesel is solely a back-up as this is an emergency truck that has to function.
Compartment space and usage is very different between Europe and North America. For the European layout this works pretty good. I know that they changed somethings for the North American market, but I don't know what they changed and I know to less about the way you guys designed and work with your engines on the other side of the pond.
 
R

RCL

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400
Fabi said:
I wouldn't call it a hybrid, as the diesel can't power the truck to drive. The diesel is solely a back-up as this is an emergency truck that has to function.
Compartment space and usage is very different between Europe and North America. For the European layout this works pretty good. I know that they changed somethings for the North American market, but I don't know what they changed and I know to less about the way you guys designed and work with your engines on the other side of the pond.
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As far as design, there is no 1 size fits all here in the US. Ive sat on the spec committee for my dept for just about every truck we have and learned a lot about trucks in general from the different makers. Most departments want or need multiple options to deploy handling. The mantra here is wet stuff goes on the red stuff, and we go home.
Every municipality in the US has different needs which in turn dictates what style of truck they require. Some dept maybe ground ladder heavy because of their area while others may be more of a squad or do it all style. Another big driver is water tank size. Tanks up to 1500 gallons is not uncommon. Which eats up compartment space. Another big thing is pump size. Average in the US I'd say is prob in the 1500 gpm range. Though 2000s are becoming more popular. This also dictates what size engine and transmission the unit will have. We also have a National group called NFPA or Nation Fire Protection Agency. ( or No Free Publications Anywhere) They have there hands in every aspect of firefighting, inspections, equipment, testing etc. Theres a vast library of rules they have for anything and everything. And this will play into US trucks.

I looked at Rosenbauers site looking for more info on the electric engine. Keeping in mind its still a new concept, I noticed a few glaring discrepancies between that unit and say a comparable Sutphen or E-One both of which I've driven and operated. This would apply to any major manufacturers.
1 it has more marketing specs then anything else. Shows some genreal specs but not much in the way of sizes. Just about every manufacturer will say x amount of compartment space, options available, pump options, like side mount vs top mount etc. Heights and dimensions were missing also. The growing trend is to get the hosebeds down lower to prevent injuries when deploying lines. This truck didn't have much or at least the one download I could find.

This truck is listed to carry up to 750 gallons of water. A lot of depts I know of require 1000 or more.

Another 1 is pump size up to 1750 gpms. 2000 is becoming more standard.

I can't find anything on heights and sizes but the layout of the hosebed eats a lot of real estate. Looking at the truck you lose a significant amount of storage on the sides. This could be significant for some departments.
The amount of hose capacity Is another thing. My engines carry between 1200 and 1500 feet of 5 inch supply. The RTX capacity is on 1000.
Alot of this probably is a trade off as a standard unit has plenty ty of options s in the hp dept, where the RTX has sever limitations due to being battery powered.
Looking at the exploded diagram, the aux engine to charge the batteries is over the back axle, which not only eats more.real estate, but I don't even want to think about trying to get to it to work on it.
Maybe eventually, some of these things will get worked out, but if I were specing a truck right now, and this came up from a vendor, I'd probably pass on it. At least for now.
 
Capttomo

Capttomo

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Sep 7, 2020
Messages
2,068
RCL said:
As far as design, there is no 1 size fits all here in the US. Ive sat on the spec committee for my dept for just about every truck we have and learned a lot about trucks in general from the different makers. Most departments want or need multiple options to deploy handling. The mantra here is wet stuff goes on the red stuff, and we go home.
Every municipality in the US has different needs which in turn dictates what style of truck they require. Some dept maybe ground ladder heavy because of their area while others may be more of a squad or do it all style. Another big driver is water tank size. Tanks up to 1500 gallons is not uncommon. Which eats up compartment space. Another big thing is pump size. Average in the US I'd say is prob in the 1500 gpm range. Though 2000s are becoming more popular. This also dictates what size engine and transmission the unit will have. We also have a National group called NFPA or Nation Fire Protection Agency. ( or No Free Publications Anywhere) They have there hands in every aspect of firefighting, inspections, equipment, testing etc. Theres a vast library of rules they have for anything and everything. And this will play into US trucks.

I looked at Rosenbauers site looking for more info on the electric engine. Keeping in mind its still a new concept, I noticed a few glaring discrepancies between that unit and say a comparable Sutphen or E-One both of which I've driven and operated. This would apply to any major manufacturers.
1 it has more marketing specs then anything else. Shows some genreal specs but not much in the way of sizes. Just about every manufacturer will say x amount of compartment space, options available, pump options, like side mount vs top mount etc. Heights and dimensions were missing also. The growing trend is to get the hosebeds down lower to prevent injuries when deploying lines. This truck didn't have much or at least the one download I could find.

This truck is listed to carry up to 750 gallons of water. A lot of depts I know of require 1000 or more.

Another 1 is pump size up to 1750 gpms. 2000 is becoming more standard.

I can't find anything on heights and sizes but the layout of the hosebed eats a lot of real estate. Looking at the truck you lose a significant amount of storage on the sides. This could be significant for some departments.
The amount of hose capacity Is another thing. My engines carry between 1200 and 1500 feet of 5 inch supply. The RTX capacity is on 1000.
Alot of this probably is a trade off as a standard unit has plenty ty of options s in the hp dept, where the RTX has sever limitations due to being battery powered.
Looking at the exploded diagram, the aux engine to charge the batteries is over the back axle, which not only eats more.real estate, but I don't even want to think about trying to get to it to work on it.
Maybe eventually, some of these things will get worked out, but if I were specing a truck right now, and this came up from a vendor, I'd probably pass on it. At least for now.
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RCL - very nice response to this member. Your observations and facts and opinions are right on point with the general trends in the US fire apparatus realm. Well presented.
 
R

RCL

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Jul 11, 2022
Messages
400
Capttomo said:
RCL - very nice response to this member. Your observations and facts and opinions are right on point with the general trends in the US fire apparatus realm. Well presented.
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Thank you. I learned a lot from talking to the sales reps, going to Fire Rescue East, and doing site tours. I would recommend any new driver operators go to a factory or fire rescue convention and spend time sticking their heads in side the trucks and talking with the vendors and mechanics. You'll be surprised at how close just about every manufacturer is and how 1 thing can affect several others.
 
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