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FDNY firefighters banned from responding to potential coronavirus cases
- Thread starter mikeindabronx
- Start date
I Get the Logic/Reasoning for this 'Protocol', But; If FDNY Units are in the role of providing CFR-D
'Emergency Medical Service'; FDNY is sort of getting kinda' Picky here - The Post Story states -
"The FDNY said all EMS and firefighters have been trained on proper procedure for wearing personal protective equipment on any potential COVID-19 calls."
So if Proper Universal Precautions are being properly exercised; Not Responding/Operating for 'Potential' COVID
Cases is really failure to provide The City with adequate Emergency Medical Service. Is FDNY in the EMS 'Business' or Not ?
Is it 'kinda'-sort of EMS?'
One point here is - the Need for CFR-D Support to FDNY-EMS by FDNY FF/CFR-D Units, for the reasons stated in the story, is not meet by this Protocol.
Another point is that w/out COVID Testing/Pre-Screening; Telephone Triage to Rule-Out COVID gets pretty tricky.
According to the Post Story, 'Difficulty Breathing' Runs will Not be assigned to FDNY for Conscious Patients. So, Pt.s have to
become Unconscious before FDNY CFR-D Units Respond ? That just sort of contradicts The Point of providing CFR-D Service in the first place. Cardiac and other Respiratory Distress Patients who do not have COVID, but are Still Conscious, are just going to have to suffer a bit longer ( and Condition Worsens), before Emergency Medical Services are assigned.
Pardon the sermon here, but as someone who served as both an EMT Ambulance Crew Chief and ER Tech in a General Hospital,
I guess I'm a bit Jaded and 'Touchy' about Pre-Hospital Emergency Care. Either you're In or You're Not. 'Sort of' In is not real helpful.
'Emergency Medical Service'; FDNY is sort of getting kinda' Picky here - The Post Story states -
"The FDNY said all EMS and firefighters have been trained on proper procedure for wearing personal protective equipment on any potential COVID-19 calls."
So if Proper Universal Precautions are being properly exercised; Not Responding/Operating for 'Potential' COVID
Cases is really failure to provide The City with adequate Emergency Medical Service. Is FDNY in the EMS 'Business' or Not ?
Is it 'kinda'-sort of EMS?'
One point here is - the Need for CFR-D Support to FDNY-EMS by FDNY FF/CFR-D Units, for the reasons stated in the story, is not meet by this Protocol.
Another point is that w/out COVID Testing/Pre-Screening; Telephone Triage to Rule-Out COVID gets pretty tricky.
According to the Post Story, 'Difficulty Breathing' Runs will Not be assigned to FDNY for Conscious Patients. So, Pt.s have to
become Unconscious before FDNY CFR-D Units Respond ? That just sort of contradicts The Point of providing CFR-D Service in the first place. Cardiac and other Respiratory Distress Patients who do not have COVID, but are Still Conscious, are just going to have to suffer a bit longer ( and Condition Worsens), before Emergency Medical Services are assigned.
Pardon the sermon here, but as someone who served as both an EMT Ambulance Crew Chief and ER Tech in a General Hospital,
I guess I'm a bit Jaded and 'Touchy' about Pre-Hospital Emergency Care. Either you're In or You're Not. 'Sort of' In is not real helpful.
The question "might be".....
"WHO MADE THIS DECISION" ?.....Was it the FDNY Firefighters ?
"WHY WAS THIS DECISION MADE" ?.... Was it the leaders of the FDNY, whose main concern might be an increase in firefighter compensation cases ?
Would responding firefighters need additional protective equipment ? What would it cost to equip each piece of fire apparatus ?
Is it really all about dollars and cents ?
We have members on this site who represent BOTH the FDNY Firefighters and the FDNY/EMS. Combined, they are the Life Savors of our Largest City in America. Maybe they can tell us a little more about it.
Going back to when the Aids epidemic was skyrocketing - Fire and EMS workers continued to respond to calls for help from these victims. Policies and Procedures were put into place. Mandatory training, plus additional equipment was needed. It cost cities more money but firefighters still responded to these emergencies.
Coronavirus is not something that someone's behavior might have brought on. Firefighters respond to drug overdoses, attempted suicide and may often encounter dangerous conditions in doing so.
Do nurses and doctors get to treat the sick or injured people they wish ? Do police officers get to choose the type of incidents they respond to ? Do firefighters get to pick the types of fires they respond to ?
Will this be a new trend with fire departments across the country ?
Does "OUR VOTE COUNT" ? Maybe NOT. But I'd be interested in hearing, in a civil/peaceful manner, what our FDNY members and what our FDNY/EMS members on this site have to say about this. As well as Firefighters or EMS Workers from areas "outside" of NYC.
"WHO MADE THIS DECISION" ?.....Was it the FDNY Firefighters ?
"WHY WAS THIS DECISION MADE" ?.... Was it the leaders of the FDNY, whose main concern might be an increase in firefighter compensation cases ?
Would responding firefighters need additional protective equipment ? What would it cost to equip each piece of fire apparatus ?
Is it really all about dollars and cents ?
We have members on this site who represent BOTH the FDNY Firefighters and the FDNY/EMS. Combined, they are the Life Savors of our Largest City in America. Maybe they can tell us a little more about it.
Going back to when the Aids epidemic was skyrocketing - Fire and EMS workers continued to respond to calls for help from these victims. Policies and Procedures were put into place. Mandatory training, plus additional equipment was needed. It cost cities more money but firefighters still responded to these emergencies.
Coronavirus is not something that someone's behavior might have brought on. Firefighters respond to drug overdoses, attempted suicide and may often encounter dangerous conditions in doing so.
Do nurses and doctors get to treat the sick or injured people they wish ? Do police officers get to choose the type of incidents they respond to ? Do firefighters get to pick the types of fires they respond to ?
Will this be a new trend with fire departments across the country ?
Does "OUR VOTE COUNT" ? Maybe NOT. But I'd be interested in hearing, in a civil/peaceful manner, what our FDNY members and what our FDNY/EMS members on this site have to say about this. As well as Firefighters or EMS Workers from areas "outside" of NYC.
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My view on this is that they (FDNY hierarchy) are saying that basically EMS personnel are expendable. EMS has been the 'stepchild' since the 1996 merger. Preceding the merger EMS was promised all kinds of enhanced job changes to bolster the moral of the troops many of which were quickly forgotten to be initiated. Jumping to today's quagmire situation, FF's have unlimited sick leave if they somehow become affected with this virus. (I pray that no one does) where EMS has 12 days per annum of sick leave. If an EMS member gets sick and runs out of accrued sick leave the brass MAY let other members donate time to the sick member. The final straw is that if an EMS member runs out of sick time they cease to earn a paycheck. Just as a side note, the article today mentions that EMS is short staffed (I wonder why) and that the OT cap has been lifted for them. Did you know that if an EMS member is working OT he or she does not receive night differential on that overtime time tour. I won't even get into the salary disparity as FDNY has no control over that but as noted the wonderful Mayor DeBlowsio has stated that "EMS is a different job." Just look at the past few days where a crew had a "patient" pull a gun on them in the rear of the ambulance, another situation had a crew be menaced by a knife wielding miscreant and last but not least was a brick thrown into the windshield of an ambulance. Yes, the job is different but the dangers are just as ominous. The old saying, "E M S translates into Every Minute Sucks." Once again EMS personnel have been shown to be expendable. Don't get me wrong, I had some great times, some very lousy ones also, during my tenure and worked with great people who took a beating so to speak and came back for more. I'm sorry that I sound like a disgruntled employee but it just makes me so aggravated to see how the table turns. I hope I did not offend anyone but my blood is boiling.
I really appreciate the Input here - both 'MM' & ' Wilfred NFD' make points I had in mind: FF's do
not get to choose what type of Fires they respond to, so how can FDNY justify what type of
EMS Runs they handle ?
Also - the Post Story highlighted the depleted ranks & OT demands of NYC EMS. As the Rank & File of
EMS are in fact undermanned, this in turn creates the demand that CFR-D is supposed to Serve: Effective/
Appropriate Critical Emergency Medical Service while awaiting Ambulance availability / arrival.
not get to choose what type of Fires they respond to, so how can FDNY justify what type of
EMS Runs they handle ?
Also - the Post Story highlighted the depleted ranks & OT demands of NYC EMS. As the Rank & File of
EMS are in fact undermanned, this in turn creates the demand that CFR-D is supposed to Serve: Effective/
Appropriate Critical Emergency Medical Service while awaiting Ambulance availability / arrival.
No matter what questioning guidelines or protocols are in place, it is almost impossible to be positive of the situation a caller is reporting over the telephone. That is why a lot of what we respond to (FIRE and EMS) is different than originally thought. Like an "unknown smell of gas" being harmless or "chest pains" being a simple belly ache - and sometimes much worse like a raging fire rather than an "odor of smoke", or "I think there's ..." We have always responded since the determination can ONLY be made by a qualified person at the scene.
Though much of FDNY was - and still is - against responding to EMS runs, that was the rule once the decision was made. To start selectively choosing what MAY BE a situation and is really something different is a very bad position. It not only abandons the potential patient, but also your fellow co-workers in FDNY.
Though much of FDNY was - and still is - against responding to EMS runs, that was the rule once the decision was made. To start selectively choosing what MAY BE a situation and is really something different is a very bad position. It not only abandons the potential patient, but also your fellow co-workers in FDNY.
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