FDNY's "Combo Companies"

[raybrag]

You've got to upload them to a web site, then list a link to them.  If you want to forward them to me, I'll upload them to my Photobucket account then post them here.  See my email address in my profile on this site

 

[E-211]

OK Raybrag,... I just sent them to you in a forward of the email I had sent to NFD2004. If you can get them here on the site or something please feel free to do so.
Thanks,
E-211

 

[raybrag]

Here they are, with comments from E-211:

Photo 1, is of our subject matter the collection of all three FDNY CFC's 121, 131, & 151. Above the cfc 131 front is an old Satellite 1 front of some years ago.



Photo 2, is of the three FDNY old style Chief Fronts, from BN 39, BN 45, and the famous John T. O'Hagan front that he never received (sorry Chief).





Photo 3, is a couple of special fronts from my collection, that also were obtained via my "Pal" who was the Cairns & Bro.'s plant manager back in the mid '70s ( chief's Aide 4th Div., Honorary Medical Officer FDNY, and Lt. of E-82.





Photos are posted in the size I got . . . if you have larger files, E211, send them to me & I'll post them.

 

[nfd2004]

Thanks "raybrag" for helping us out. When "E 211" sent me the photos, I had no idea of how to post them. Thanks Guys.

 

[mikeindabronx]

"E-211" thanks for sharing your collection with us. "raybrag" thanks for the help with posting the photos.

 

[E-211]

RayBrag;
Hey Pisan, .... thanks for helping an old techno challenged guy out, so all can see the goods. I appreciate it. Sorry for the file size, I took the pics w/ my phone, and had to have my daughter email them to my email so I could send them here. They look small on my screen too, but at least in teamwork we've got them on here. Thanks All.

E-211

 

[68jk09]

Nice fronts.....211 was your friend at Cairns named Sam?

 

[E-211]

WOW!!! Bullseye Chief K.    
Yeah It WAS Sam, and I always stopped at the local bakery in Clifton before I arrived, and always brought  Sam and Freddie a few dozen pastries. I even have a 8X10 of Sam at the back door of the plant, pointing out the door, as his favorite saying was (and I quote) "Take it out the back door Pal." I'm looking at that photo right next to my desk, on the wall.

I went back years later, Just before Freddie ( the helmet fronts maker ) retired, and Freddie told me that Sam had passed away a couple of years before. A good friend (or two) gone. Sam was replaced by a guy named Basil I think, but I haven't been back since. It WAS good in those days

 

[FDNY150]

Side note, Los Angeles County and City run a similar concept to the CFC's. They are called Light Forces. They are counted in the response as a Truck company, and the officer is on the Truck. It's a Truck with an officer, chauffer(Engineeer) one guy on the back step, and one guy in the tiller seat. The Engine(pump, or Tender) is one or two firefighters. The idea is they have the ability to operate as either an engine or truck in certain situations, and have the engine to supply ladderpipes. It seems to work for them. LA County has 1 or 2 stand alone light forces, 127(Home of Emergency!) and I think 181 in Pomona. 2 others, 8, and 82 are quartered with a fully staffed Engine.

 

[811]

I believe the E82 LT front may be a hybrid of two styles or a custom job.  The colored inserts for LT were used c1959-1965.  Prior to that CAPT and LT had the company number (in associated color) on a full white front with no lettering, only the one or two devices at top (trumpets, axes) to indicate rank..

In 1959 CAPT got a full white front with company number, no lettering, no devices, LT got the white front with colored insert (as in the E82 example), no lettering, no devices.

c 1965 CAPT and LT went to the current style, full white front, company number in proper color, device(s) at top, and the rank in panel below company number.

See WNYF July 1947 for illustrations of helmet frontpieces and badges, and October 1959 for "new style" fronts.

 

[Ladder63]

Some questions about the Combos:

1.  With only one officer, a Captain, on which apparatus did the Officer ride, the Engine or the Truck?
2.  Which apparatus rolled first out of Quarters the Engine or the Truck?
3.  If it was a "job" who did the Officer lead, the Forcible Entry team from the Truck, or the Nozzle Team from the Engine?
4.  How many Firemen were assigned to the Engine, how many to the Truck?
5.  Was the Combo program considered successful?
6.  Why was it discontinued?
Thanks for any answers.  I remember the Combo units from buffing The Job on my scanner in the 1970's. 

 

[mack]

Some questions about the Combos:

1.  With only one officer, a Captain, on which apparatus did the Officer ride, the Engine or the Truck?
2.  Which apparatus rolled first out of Quarters the Engine or the Truck?
3.  If it was a "job" who did the Officer lead, the Forcible Entry team from the Truck, or the Nozzle Team from the Engine?
4.  How many Firemen were assigned to the Engine, how many to the Truck?
5.  Was the Combo program considered successful?
6.  Why was it discontinued?
Thanks for any answers.  I remember the Combo units from buffing The Job on my scanner in the 1970's.

Combo 131 on Staten Island was formed by combining Engine 151 and Ladder 76 which covered Tottenville and a lot of South Shore neighborhoods.  Combos were staffed each shift with 1 Capt, 4 FF on the engine section and 5 FF on the truck section. They responded as one unit.  I do not believe there was any set policy of engine or truck section turning out first - but usually the engine led the unit to the box location.  The captain rode the engine section.  The purpose was to save the City a few bucks by eliminating the LT slot in the truck. Combo companies were assigned 5 captains and 51 firefighters.

The unique units selected for combo designation were engine/trucks housed together, responded to all boxes together (engine/truck sections), did not relocate and were not assigned on many multiple alarms to pull them out of their district. 

Engine 151 and Ladder 76 were not busy companies, but when they got something, they operated on their own for quite a while.  E 164/L84 (2nd due) were almost 4 miles away from the Tottenville firehouse, E162/L82/Bn 23 were about 6 or 7 miles away.  The fire location could also be further away than the Combo's firehouse, so the chief and the 3rd due engine (E 162, if assigned) could have a 10 minute run or longer. Engine 167 and Engine 168 did not exist back then.

Several combined companies were initially planned but were not formed.  The combined unit concept did not work well because it always took "both sections" to do any run.  A simple engine job always took the "truck" section out of service.  Relocations, special calls, multiple alarms, unit training - all became more difficult.  You had one officer leading two sections or engine/truck functions at a job.  Tough to do. This was an unpopular concept. . 

 

[mack]

 

[E-211]

Mack; This is E-211 Here..... I've been looking for photos like that for YEARS, as I'm making a display Box with my set of all three front in it. Thanks for making my dream more of a reality. Just as A side note, I have bequeathed them to my sons after myself, with the understanding that if neither son wishes to keep them that they are then to be donated to the FDNY Fire Museum. Again Thanks So VERY Much !! & Happy New Year

 

[mack]

Mack; This is E-211 Here..... I've been looking for photos like that for YEARS, as I'm making a display Box with my set of all three front in it. Thanks for making my dream more of a reality. Just as A side note, I have bequeathed them to my sons after myself, with the understanding that if neither son wishes to keep them that they are then to be donated to the FDNY Fire Museum. Again Thanks So VERY Much !! & Happy New Year

Thank you E 211.  Your project sounds great.  Please let me know if you are looking for another company or job and I will try to help.  Happy New Year.