Key Companies

guitarman314 · Jul 13, 2009

From the late 1940's and up until around 1967 my old mentor Jimmy Ginty showed me which companies were "Key" companies. Whenever there was a multiple alarm they did not relocate and were always covered by other units unless a neighboring unit was still in quarters. Engine 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, 18, 22, 23, 31, 33, 36, 37, 52, 58, 63, 64, 65, 68, 69, 70, 71, 73, 76, 79, 82, 84, 91, 92 & 97. Ladder 2, 5, 6, 11, 17, 22, 24, 27, 31, 39, 47, 52 & 53. In Brooklyn there were a few like E207, 210, 245, 253 & 290; I'm sure JohnD knows.

johnd248 · Jul 13, 2009

Thanks for complimenting my memory. I do remember the 60s in Brooklyn and some of the key companies are no longer around, like Engine 209. Engine 216 and Ladder 108 were always busy in Williamsburg and Engine 214 and Ladder 111 and 102 in Bed Stuy. Engine 231, 283, and Ladder 120 in Brownsville were also key companies. Sometime around 1964, my company Engine 248 had a relatively new Mack CF pumper with a covered cab; we were forced to swap rigs with Engine 244 in Coney Island because it was felt they needed the covered cab more than we did. We got their old Ward LaFrance relic, no covered cab or back step and no mother-in-law seats. When E 244 was disbanded as Coney Island quieted down, we finally got our rig back.

firebuffkevin · Jul 13, 2009

johnd248 said:
Thanks for complimenting my memory. I do remember the 60s in Brooklyn and some of the key companies are no longer around, like Engine 209. Engine 216 and Ladder 108 were always busy in Williamsburg and Engine 214 and Ladder 111 and 102 in Bed Stuy. Engine 231, 283, and Ladder 120 in Brownsville were also key companies. Sometime around 1964, my company Engine 248 had a relatively new Mack CF pumper with a covered cab; we were forced to swap rigs with Engine 244 in Coney Island because it was felt they needed the covered cab more than we did. We got their old Ward LaFrance relic, no covered cab or back step and no mother-in-law seats. When E 244 was disbanded as Coney Island quieted down, we finally got our rig back.

The 60's Mack CF's were beautiful rigs. We had them in Flushing E274, E273 and E272 (disbanded), replacing a 1947 Mack (which also was a beautiful engine), a 1936 Ward La France and a 1944 Mack in that order.

Can you describe the mother-in-law seats. Thanks

efd274 · Jul 13, 2009

are you sure on the 1936 WLF - wasn't it a 39 maybe - looking at Wheels of the Bravest WLF delivered hose wagons in 37,38,and 39 and pumpers in 39.

Guitarman you're needed to solve this!

guitarman314 · Jul 13, 2009

All I have for E274 is in 1946 they had a 1922 ALF 700gpm & a 1930 Seagrave wagon, then they got the 47 Mack L 750gpm and in 1958 they got a well worn 1947 ALF from E48. E274 was like a stepchild for many years as they always seemed to be running with reassigned rigs. In 1971 they had a 62 Mack C, In 1973 they had a 1963 Mack C, and in 1973 they had a 1968 Mack CF.

1261Truckie · Jul 14, 2009

Late 60's and early 70's Ladders 105 & 113 were considered key companies and were always covered when operating at fires and did not relocate.
Ladders 111 and 120 were always covered.
Also one night L-132was relocated to TCU-732

johnd248 · Jul 14, 2009

"Mother-in law" seats were two rear-facing seats behind the chauffeur and officer. Unlike the chauffeur and officer who were completely enclosed by the cab, the mother in law seats had the roof and sides of the cab protecting them, but other than that they were open to the elements: cold, rain, snow, etc. In the 70s, Mack came out with a pumper that had completely enclosed mother in law seats.

nfd2004 · Jul 14, 2009

Mother-in-law seats ! Yes John, as I remember the FDNY was the first to have apparatus with them completely enclosed. Another First for the FDNY. With the old 3/4 boots, and 3/4 coats, do you remember ever getting pretty wet in a heavy rain ?
And I never realized there were so many "Key Companies." Thank You.
And a little help please. What quarters did TCU 732 and 532 run out of ?

efd274 · Jul 14, 2009

Thanks to all!

1261Truckie · Jul 14, 2009

nfd2004,

If memory serves me (and that can be doubtful) TCU732 originally ran out of E-277's quarters and then shifted over to the "Tin House" with E-232.

TCU-532 ran out of E-225's old house (before they moved in with L-107).

firebuffkevin · Jul 14, 2009

johnd248 said:
"Mother-in law" seats were two rear-facing seats behind the chauffeur and officer. Unlike the chauffeur and officer who were completely enclosed by the cab, the mother in law seats had the roof and sides of the cab protecting them, but other than that they were open to the elements: cold, rain, snow, etc. In the 70s, Mack came out with a pumper that had completely enclosed mother in law seats.

Thanks Johnd248. Now that you describe them, the ALF 50's vintage tractors had them as well.

efd274 · Jul 14, 2009

G'man - they used the 47ALF as a hose wagon and still had the 47 Mack as the pumper back in 58. Prior to the ALF hose wagon they generally had a WLF CD pumper stored at the house which they didn't use going to fires. I think it was used as a spare rig and just stored at E274. My recollction is they used it a few times when the Mack was in for service/repairs at "the shops".

But I have a funny story about the 47 ALF hose wagon - the 47ALF would stall a bit -on a couple of occasions the driver (only person on the apparatus) didn't have the location of the box and was not able to keep up with the engine and had to return to quarters to get the location. Many of the drivers of the 47 ALF said they felt like an A-hole driving a fire engine all by themselves. Back in those days it was a big thing for a fireman to say A-hole around any kids at least - they were always gentlemen

guitarman314 · Jul 14, 2009

That's funny about the stalling, those '47 American LaFrance's had 12 cylinder engines, I guess tune-ups were difficult or expensive

;D

firebuffkevin · Jul 14, 2009

efd274 said:
G'man - they used the 47ALF as a hose wagon and still had the 47 Mack as the pumper back in 58. Prior to the ALF hose wagon they generally had a WLF CD pumper stored at the house which they didn't use going to fires. I think it was used as a spare rig and just stored at E274. My recollction is they used it a few times when the Mack was in for service/repairs at "the shops".

But I have a funny story about the 47 ALF hose wagon - the 47ALF would stall a bit -on a couple of occasions the driver (only person on the apparatus) didn't have the location of the box and was not able to keep up with the engine and had to return to quarters to get the location. Many of the drivers of the 47 ALF said they felt like an A-hole driving a fire engine all by themselves. Back in those days it was a big thing for a fireman to say A-hole around any kids at least - they were always gentlemen

True they had a 50's vintage Ward CD stored there. Before the 47 ALF hose wagon, they had a 36 vintage Ward La france closed cab hosewagon. You should have heard that baby idle!

firebuffkevin · Jul 14, 2009

Some pictures of older rigs including a 1947 Mack. Similar to E274's Mack except 274 had doors, a deck pipe and did not have a chrome grill.

http://www.antiquefirebrigade.com/membersapparatus.htm

efd274 · Jul 14, 2009

I was too young to remember the 36 WLF!!

3511 · Jul 14, 2009

1947 was a vintage year for FDNY apparatus. Because of WWII, only a few (like 4) Mack pumpers or ladders had been delivered between 1942 and 1945. Some units (see Bronx Engine 62) were still running 1920's era American LaFrance 700 series rigs or 1929 Mack Bulldogs (E97). The fleet needed to be replenished. As was the custom in that day, orders were spread to several manufacturers.

Ward LaFrance ---20 of these 1946 models came into the job. They were light and fast but did not have a long shelf life. Most were out of front line service within a decade. Five were equipped with booster tanks, the first in the FDNY. The siren was probably the largest model ever purchased by the FDNY, a big gray monster mounted on the left front fender. Sounded like an air raid siren. In 1947 and 1948, Ward delivered 40 ladder tractors to replace 1920's era FWD and ALF models. These had a long shelf life, some running through the FDNY War Years, pulling metal aerials. Why so many from Ward? The company had a large inventory of military contract vehicles left over from the war effort. The City got them for song and they were in stock for quick delivery.

20 American LaFrance pumpers. These were the first cab forward design for the FDNY. They were showcase pieces, going to very visible companies in Midtown ((E2) or high tax revenue areas (E97 in Pelham Gardens). Their bucket (mother-in-law) seats were rarely used by the members; REAL MEN rode the back step. These rigs eventually bounced all around the FDNY, many as hose wagons or second sections (E70). A 1948 ALF aerial was also a show piece in Mid Town L24, one of the first three metal aerials purchased by the FDNY. This aerial lasted into the 1970's at L39 in Woodlawn, the northern most outpost of the FDNY. All these ALF's had a unique siren, mounted on the front step driver side, that just groaned.

20 Mack "L" Models. Another showpiece (E23) that became a real workhorse for the FDNY. Many went initially to outlying units in the Bronx (E38,E52) and Queens units to replace 1920's ALF 700 rigs. Their one drawback; no booster. Many wound up in Manhattan and the Bronx (E43,46,71,75,82, 88) when the 1950's Wards arrived with booster tanks for use in the less developed areas of the City, where long hose stretches were often required without a booster. Those companies that had them loved them, they were so reliable, but the lack of booster did them in after a relatively short time; by late 50's they were out of front line service and then soon gone. They had a different siren also, located under the motor hood on the officer's side, not visible in any photos. It ran off a fly wheel connected to the fan belt and sounded more like a police car siren. Rather than a floor button on the front of the floor board in the cab, the officer depressed a lever with his heel under his seat to make it go.

All these rigs were 750GPM, a radical change to the FDNY concept of pump capacity from the 1930's, and all had doors but no roof cabs. Crew safety was not yet a priority.

Thanks to Jack Lerch, John Calderone, Mike Boucher, and my Dad for much of this (too much?) information.

efd274 · Jul 15, 2009

Enjoyed that 3511

3511 · Jul 15, 2009

Thanks.

firebuffkevin · Jul 15, 2009

3511 said:
1947 was a vintage year for FDNY apparatus. Because of WWII, only a few (like 4) Mack pumpers or ladders had been delivered between 1942 and 1945. Some units (see Bronx Engine 62) were still running 1920's era American LaFrance 700 series rigs or 1929 Mack Bulldogs (E97). The fleet needed to be replenished. As was the custom in that day, orders were spread to several manufacturers.

Ward LaFrance ---20 of these 1946 models came into the job. They were light and fast but did not have a long shelf life. Most were out of front line service within a decade. Five were equipped with booster tanks, the first in the FDNY. The siren was probably the largest model ever purchased by the FDNY, a big gray monster mounted on the left front fender. Sounded like an air raid siren. In 1947 and 1948, Ward delivered 40 ladder tractors to replace 1920's era FWD and ALF models. These had a long shelf life, some running through the FDNY War Years, pulling metal aerials. Why so many from Ward? The company had a large inventory of military contract vehicles left over from the war effort. The City got them for song and they were in stock for quick delivery.

20 American LaFrance pumpers. These were the first cab forward design for the FDNY. They were showcase pieces, going to very visible companies in Midtown ((E2) or high tax revenue areas (E97 in Pelham Gardens). Their bucket (mother-in-law) seats were rarely used by the members; REAL MEN rode the back step. These rigs eventually bounced all around the FDNY, many as hose wagons or second sections (E70). A 1948 ALF aerial was also a show piece in Mid Town L24, one of the first three metal aerials purchased by the FDNY. This aerial lasted into the 1970's at L39 in Woodlawn, the northern most outpost of the FDNY. All these ALF's had a unique siren, mounted on the front step driver side, that just groaned.

20 Mack "L" Models. Another showpiece (E23) that became a real workhorse for the FDNY. Many went initially to outlying units in the Bronx (E38,E52) and Queens units to replace 1920's ALF 700 rigs. Their one drawback; no booster. Many wound up in Manhattan and the Bronx (E43,46,71,75,82, 88) when the 1950's Wards arrived with booster tanks for use in the less developed areas of the City, where long hose stretches were often required without a booster. Those companies that had them loved them, they were so reliable, but the lack of booster did them in after a relatively short time; by late 50's they were out of front line service and then soon gone. They had a different siren also, located under the motor hood on the officer's side, not visible in any photos. It ran off a fly wheel connected to the fan belt and sounded more like a police car siren. Rather than a floor button on the front of the floor board in the cab, the officer depressed a lever with his heel under his seat to make it go.

All these rigs were 750GPM, a radical change to the FDNY concept of pump capacity from the 1930's, and all had doors but no roof cabs. Crew safety was not yet a priority.

Thanks to Jack Lerch, John Calderone, Mike Boucher, and my Dad for much of this (too much?) information.

In 1944 10 - 1000 GPM Mack pumpers were delivered, They were called "War Birds" - no chrome to save money.