"Lemon" Equipment Assignments

[FFM1938]

So before I ask I want to say I mean no offense or implication with this question, but its something Ive heard more than a few times from members and ex-members so I wonder if anybody here has any additional insight.

Since there are a few houses that typically see fewer/less complicated calls by virtue of their location, do they really get the "lemon" or more repair-prone equipment as a result?

Ive heard this was something of the case post-9/11 with all the apparatus donations, so all the non standard types were placed as needed to fill equipment gaps. But is that still a practice these days with more troublesome, rebuilt or near end of life equipment?

 

[lucky]

Prior to the mid seventies the new apparatus was given to the busiest units and their used rigs were passed down to the slower units. I think that all units in the city now receive new apparatus that is replaced in about 10 years, in accordance with the officers union contract.

 

[t123ken]

The "10 years" usually means 10 years and 364 days.

 

[FFM1938]

If rigs are getting replaced 10 years out regardless of use, do the heavy-use rigs still get moved around the fleet to less busy houses and vice versa then? I cant imagine a rig that makes 5000+ runs a year is going to be able operate at the same reliability at year 10 than a rig that saw half that activity.

 

[tcu712]

In 2021 the runs for the companies on City Island were E70 (365) & L53 (158). Virtually no wear and tear on those rigs.

 

[FFM1938]

Thats crazy but growing up in that area I get why, City Island is a nightmare to get to from the landside during summer, even with the fire lanes.

So is that house treated like a rocking chair assignment for pre-retirees or light duty members? Ive always wondered about them and Eng 329 out in the Rockaways. Id imagine they are busy as hell in the summer and pretty quiet in the cold weather months.

 

[grumpy grizzly]

Prior to the mid seventies the new apparatus was given to the busiest units and their used rigs were passed down to the slower units. I think that all units in the city now receive new apparatus that is replaced in about 10 years, in accordance with the officers union contract.

Until the mid 80's when Leo Stapleton changed things the busiest companies got the new stuff. In 1976 BFD ordered 5 WLF with four door enclosed cabs and they went to the busiest companies but also for the protection it afforded the members. Companies in the Allston Brighton District, D-11 usually got companies on their fourth assignment, usually the 1970 Hahn's. Engine 41 was on its third assignment in 1982.

 

[Sfdc111]

Until the mid 80's when Leo Stapleton changed things the busiest companies got the new stuff. In 1976 BFD ordered 5 WLF with four door enclosed cabs and they went to the busiest companies but also for the protection it afforded the members. Companies in the Allston Brighton District, D-11 usually got companies on their fourth assignment, usually the 1970 Hahn's. Engine 41 was on its third assignment in 1982.

51 just got their first new engine since their Ford/E-One in 1985.

 

[3511]

Prior to the mid seventies the new apparatus was given to the busiest units and their used rigs were passed down to the slower units. I think that all units in the city now receive new apparatus that is replaced in about 10 years, in accordance with the officers union contract.

You are correct, Lucky, about the mid 1970s policy.

 

[mack]

It's inappropriate to imply that fire companies with lower response totals have less complicated runs and are rocking chair assignments. Any run, for fire, EMS or emergency, can be dangerous and complicated, regardless of the frequency units receive them. Assignments to any unit, high or low response, face the same risks and require the same responsibilities and duties. LODDs unfortunately can happen in any fire company in any city, regardless of activity level. Also, lower response companies are typically in outlaying areas where units have to operate alone until additional units arrive.

 

[grumpy grizzly]

51 just got their first new engine since their Ford/E-One in 1985.

In 1923 Engine 29 received a 1923 Type 75 ALF which they retained until 1946. They did not receive another new apparatus until 1984 when they got a 1984 Sutphen.

 

[grumpy grizzly]

It's inappropriate to imply that fire companies with lower response totals have less complicated runs and are rocking chair assignments. Any run, for fire, EMS or emergency, can be dangerous and complicated, regardless of the frequency units receive them. Assignments to any unit, high or low response, face the same risks and require the same responsibilities and duties. LODDs unfortunately can happen in any fire company in any city, regardless of activity level. Also, lower response companies are typically in outlaying areas where units have to operate alone until additional units arrive.

I agree. I think that those assigned to E-70/TL-53 must have a lot on the ball, they are by themselves until more help arrives. They are on an island, correct? Also if the neighborhood where your firehouse is situated is in a well maintained neighborhood by its occupants the fire chances will diminish. Any run can have its own share of dangers.

 

[FFM1938]

Apologies if that came off the wrong way, I was just curious. I work in the maritime field and while every ship has its challenges and difficult assignments, there are a few which are decidedly "softer" postings where we tend to assign the guys who have the seniority, are on lighter duty or need additional supervision or guidance. I was just wondering if some of the lower-call houses were the same way but I don't mean to cheapen or detract from the work they do and dangers they face.

 

[In2theJob]

If rigs are getting replaced 10 years out regardless of use, do the heavy-use rigs still get moved around the fleet to less busy houses and vice versa then? I cant imagine a rig that makes 5000+ runs a year is going to be able operate at the same reliability at year 10 than a rig that saw half that activity.

No, rigs no longer get moved to slower companies. Once they get a new rig, (per contract a new one is supposed to be ordered by the end of the 10th year) You keep your rig until you get a new one. So by the end of the life of the rig, the beat down ones usually get scrapped or sold. The ones that are in better condition are usually put into the spare pool and replace rigs that are almost 20 years old at this point.

An exception to this might be L22. I believe they received L35's 2 year 75' old rig since they just received a new 95'

 

[Red dragon]

Rigs get beat up in different ways, it’s not all mileage or running. It doesn’t really matter where it is technology changes over time and inherent issues with rigs will have the same issues slow or busy it’s just the
Matter of time which those issues show their colors. Pumping fires or use of aerial devices at jobs is not the only consideration of use or the beating it takes.

 

[mack]

You are correct, Lucky, about the mid 1970s policy.

SI used to be the final resting place for old apparatus.

When E 165 and L 85 were organized in New Dorp in 1960, they had a very large response area. They were projected to be busy SI companies due to their central location but were issued well-past-their-prime apparatus. SI companies were not issued new apparatus.

E 165's initial 1940's WLF pumper:




New Dorp firehouse when opened in 1960:




L 85 eventually got a new Mack cab for their old Pircsh aerial ladder.





Rescue 5, when organized as a new rescue company, was issued an old 1941 converted hose wagon. The hose wagon had seen years of service service at E 251 and then E 203. Members had to enclose the rear of the unit themselves to look like the other boroughs' rescue apparatus and protect members and tools.

 

[grumpy grizzly]

In January 1975 Boston placed in service Ladder 5 in the West Roxbury/Rosindale section of the city. The only available ladder apparatus was a 1950 Mack 65; junior aerial until the new Seagrave aerial apparatus arrived and changes were made to assignments. At work August 1975 at Box 3-2791, Corey's Market, a tough and long struggle to put out.

 

[ta176]

When 176 was organized 11/24/72 we received TCU's rig which was a 69 American LaFrance rear mount. It was a 2 cycle Diesel 5 speed manual trans and was very fast. It kept breaking down and shops had limited supply of parts, Seagrave was dominant rear mount back then, kept rig out of service for long periods of time. Rear cab was open and when it broke down in winter and we got a Seagrave with enclosed rear cab Brothers got spoiled and didn't want any part of the old rig. The American LaFrance was then shipped to Staten Island somewhere were fire activity and running wouldn't take a toil on that rig. I liked it because it was fast and being 4 blocks from 123 and 4 blocks from 120, it let us become 1st due to there surprise at some of their boxes. Much nicer on fire floor then floor above.

 

[squarewheels]

i get what your asking. each company gets a rig nasically every 11 yrs. then those older rigs are used as spares. the older rigs from slower companys that do 1000 runs a yr prob have less and wear and tear on them and are the more reliable spares that have less oroblems but i guess there always an exception to that rule cause some brand new rigs are lemons straight outta the box. the ferrara and kme rigs have been crap as soon as they were put in service so i doubt you will see them used as spares.
now when the shoos run out of first line spares you should see the bottom of the barrel rigs they have to give out as spares. im talkin rough! some of these spares last a week before another spare has to replace this spare and thats alot of unpacking and repacking.

 

[skiLB]

Prior to the mid seventies the new apparatus was given to the busiest units and their used rigs were passed down to the slower units. I think that all units in the city now receive new apparatus that is replaced in about 10 years, in accordance with the officers union contract.

Pretty much right...but sometimes takes little longer to get those new rigs...no reason why stay in shops little longer, etc. My old place took year n half get our new TL