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With Starfire, the ticket used to say “Fill out alarm second source.” Is “loading up the box” the new term on the screen with FireCAD?
Loading up the box
- Thread starter QUEENS1985
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Two different things:
“Fill out alarm Second Source” is used to ensure 3 engines, 2 ladders and a battalion are assigned. Example: 1 engine, 1 ladder and 1 battalion chief are responding to an automatic fire alarm. If dispatch gets a second call on it and someone reports an odor of smoke in the building, then dispatch fills out the rest of the assignment to bring it up to 3E/2L/1BC.
”Loading the box” is when dispatch is getting multiple calls for a fire at the same location. 3 engines, 2 ladders and 1 battalion may be on the way, but now dispatch adds the 4th due engine, rescue and squad. This is a case by case situation and is decided on by what dispatch refers to as “due to the quantity & quality of calls, we’re loading the box”.
So:
Fill out alarm Second Source ensures 3E/2L/1BC are assigned.
Loading the box gets 4E/2L/1BC/ Rescue & Squad.
As I always state, it’s not a perfect world, and if a 3rd ladder is in the area they may get assigned.
“Fill out alarm Second Source” is used to ensure 3 engines, 2 ladders and a battalion are assigned. Example: 1 engine, 1 ladder and 1 battalion chief are responding to an automatic fire alarm. If dispatch gets a second call on it and someone reports an odor of smoke in the building, then dispatch fills out the rest of the assignment to bring it up to 3E/2L/1BC.
”Loading the box” is when dispatch is getting multiple calls for a fire at the same location. 3 engines, 2 ladders and 1 battalion may be on the way, but now dispatch adds the 4th due engine, rescue and squad. This is a case by case situation and is decided on by what dispatch refers to as “due to the quantity & quality of calls, we’re loading the box”.
So:
Fill out alarm Second Source ensures 3E/2L/1BC are assigned.
Loading the box gets 4E/2L/1BC/ Rescue & Squad.
As I always state, it’s not a perfect world, and if a 3rd ladder is in the area they may get assigned.
Couple different terms.
extra 1 & 1 is mostly spot on
let’s not forget transmitting the box. When a box goes out, whether a single unit response, 5-7 signal or class 3 that doesn’t get the 3&2, when the unit gets on scene can request the box to be transmitted which would bring the 3&2
when the box gets loaded (10-30)
It’s due to numerous calls/quality call/reports of people trapped.
When loaded the response is
4E, 3L (3rd FAST)
2 BC
And the normally assigned Rescue & Squad if available
10-75 gets the same response and the nearest available rescue and squad
Plus the division Chief and a RAC unit
All Hands means 3 (or 2 engines and a squad) & 2 are operating
All Hands with the incident doubtful gets the remainder of the assignment(fast truck, spec units etc)
extra 1 & 1 is mostly spot on
let’s not forget transmitting the box. When a box goes out, whether a single unit response, 5-7 signal or class 3 that doesn’t get the 3&2, when the unit gets on scene can request the box to be transmitted which would bring the 3&2
when the box gets loaded (10-30)
It’s due to numerous calls/quality call/reports of people trapped.
When loaded the response is
4E, 3L (3rd FAST)
2 BC
And the normally assigned Rescue & Squad if available
10-75 gets the same response and the nearest available rescue and squad
Plus the division Chief and a RAC unit
All Hands means 3 (or 2 engines and a squad) & 2 are operating
All Hands with the incident doubtful gets the remainder of the assignment(fast truck, spec units etc)
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To answer the original question, no, FireCAD doesn't print anything about "Loading up the box". MDTs in the rigs still look the same. Screens for the dispatchers are much different than the StarFire years (and arguably nicer) but no "load box" button or text other than the T-30 on the SEP. Still a verbal thing.
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I believe that the "second source" tactic was an outgrowth of the adaptive response concept of the late 1960's. The name of the game was increasing the availability of companies for the NEXT incoming alarm. Thus, "second source" was used to determine the probability that the third due engine would go to work on the initial alarm.
On the lighter side..working a night tour..28 has the meal and is preparing an Italian feast. Box comes in…signal 5…engine only. Before getting on the rig, 28’s chef yells “stir the sauce”. It’s misheard and guys start yelling “second source!”. Asses and elbows, guys sliding the pole, donning their gear. The chef says “I said stir the effing sauce!!”. Deep breaths and a lot of laughs. Stay safe.
Several initiatives (aka gimmicks) were tried during the late 1960s and 1970s to address the skyrocketing increase in alarms and fires during the so-called "War Years". NYC was experiencing continual budget problems. Manpower squads responded in vans and trucks in busy battalions. An effort was made to create 2nd sections for busy engines, trucks and battalions. This was a Band-Aid because so many companies were busy. Most assignments were 2&2 plus chief - but it was increasingly difficult to maintain this response. 2nd sections then were disbanded and often formed new fire companies.
Adaptive Response was tried in 1970 to reduce assignments (2 E-1L -1BC) during peak response time period to make more units theoretically available more quickly. Tactical Control Units (engine and truck), a new division (the 17th w/new battalions) was created. Discretionary Response Boxes (DRBs) were tried. A 60th Battalion for firefighting only rotated into busy battalions. Two "Tin House" portable firehouses (both never changed locations) were built. - All in the era of pulled fire alarm boxes which enabled countless false alarms ("10-92s"). It was infrequent to get a "second source" unless NYPD confirmed, a public building with several occupant phone calls or a large fire with multiple boxes were pulled.
1970s - ERS alarm boxes arrived - with a no response or single engine response if no contact.
Cell phones finally enabled dispatchers to more frequently have a "2nd source" and adjust alarm assignments appropriately.
Adaptive Response was tried in 1970 to reduce assignments (2 E-1L -1BC) during peak response time period to make more units theoretically available more quickly. Tactical Control Units (engine and truck), a new division (the 17th w/new battalions) was created. Discretionary Response Boxes (DRBs) were tried. A 60th Battalion for firefighting only rotated into busy battalions. Two "Tin House" portable firehouses (both never changed locations) were built. - All in the era of pulled fire alarm boxes which enabled countless false alarms ("10-92s"). It was infrequent to get a "second source" unless NYPD confirmed, a public building with several occupant phone calls or a large fire with multiple boxes were pulled.
1970s - ERS alarm boxes arrived - with a no response or single engine response if no contact.
Cell phones finally enabled dispatchers to more frequently have a "2nd source" and adjust alarm assignments appropriately.
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Also, during the Adaptive Response time period many truck companies operated with extra men in order to staff the two man "Above Fire Team" (an attempt to show that one truck company could do the work of two, except for those times when there was only one guy as the Above Fire Team). Fun and Games/smoke and mirrors!
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The amount of people that call for some things these days is crazy. We sometimes get two or three calls just telling us there is a fire to have companies make it a 10-18 for 10-40 Code 2. Must be every person in the affected family calling and sometimes the same person hangs up the phone and dials back right away thinking we will get there faster.
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Just had a call for report of Fire in bronx numerous calls they loaded it up with 4th Engine, FAST Truck, and 10-75 Chief.
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Never saw them notify the FAST truck before 10-75 until lately
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Yeah that part is new, and seems like they added 7-5 Chief on to that now too.
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the issue is they load up these boxes due to numerous calls and sometimes it’s just a compactor. It’s good to roll enough then not enough tho.
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Easier to cancel companies then it is to start out companies. Plus creates run numbers...
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It also creates a vacuum in the response area ….all the nearby companies are responding to one location for something that’s not quite confirmed yet. In some areas of South East Queens and a Staten Island. Taking 4E + 3T + R&Sq opens up a huge response area. I worked in Bushwick and I can recall a few incidents where a full assignment was sent to a phone alarm on Jefferson St , 237& 124 first due ….only to arrive and be redirected to Jefferson Ave. 277 & 112 first due. Basically the other end of Bushwick. E -277 has a well deserved unit citation from just such a incident when they pulled up to job , basically by themselves.…because the rest of that assignment was at the wrong location. And this was in Bushwick where ALL the compare basically very very close to each other. Now just imagine some thing like this happening in a area with less coverage.
It seems like the term 'loading up the box' refers to the practice of sending additional resources or units to a fire scene. This is typically done when the incident commander believes the situation might escalate. btw, I know that 3d modeling can be used in firefighter training to simulate various scenarios, including those where additional resources might be needed. Are there any training exercises that specifically prepare firefighters for situations where the box is loaded up?
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Simialrly an old Brooklyn tale: Long ago "Jeopardy" came on at noon and many houses watched it. At the time housewatch calls out "Jeopardy!", but members think they hear "Deputy!". Thinking the Chief is at quarters cans and other contraband goes flying over the back yard fences!
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Welcome Kulyenuch! I see you’re new and this was your first post.
The term “loading up the box” has a specific meaning within the FDNY. You may be referring to a different procedure from a different department. With the FDNY, it’s not the Incident Commander who loads the box. It is done by the dispatchers prior to the arrival of the fire department on the scene.
Example: A report of a building fire will get 3 engines, 2 ladders & 1 battalion chief. If dispatch begins receiving many calls reporting the same condition (flames out the windows) and/or people are trapped, a decision by dispatch may be made that the preponderance of information received indicates that there is most likely a potentially serious fire in progress. Dispatch may “load the box” by sending the 4th engine, the rescue and the squad in an effort to “get them on the way.” Those units would be responding anyhow once the first unit arrived and transmitted the “Working Fire”. Nothing is done differently as far as tactics go. It’s just a way to get help to the scene faster and it gives the first battalion chief a heads-up that additional units are on the way.
It appears to have gone back and forth as to what units from the working-fire assignment are assigned when loading the box. Most recently it appears the 4th engine, rescue and squad is the equipment usually dispatched when loading the box. Hope you enjoy the site! A lot of great stuff here.