My younger Buff years
- Thread starter nfd2004
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nfd2004 said:
That's true, originally there was 10-30 = 'Working Fire'
Then 10-30 was changed to a request for a 2 & 2 response and 10-75 was implemented which was a request for 3 & 2.
Eventually the 10-30 was eliminated leaving 10-75 as a request for 3 & 2.
Later still the 10-75 became a request for 3, 2, Rescue and Squad.
As far as exactly when these changes took place ... I'm old, my mind won't allow me to remember ... LOL
As far as exactly when these changes took place ... I'm old, my mind won't allow me to remember ... LOL
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That's pretty sad when one old timer can't remember. It's even sadder when a second old timer can't remember. We're both too old to remember and everybody else is too young to know. Life really does have it's challenges.
[/quote]
That's pretty sad when one old timer can't remember. It's even sadder when a second old timer can't remember. We're both too old to remember and everybody else is too young to know. Life really does have it's challenges.
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69 Mets: here's your Division 8/Staten Island Deputy Chief info:
DIVISION 6 STATEN ISLAND
RELOC. 1189 Castleton Ave. At L-104 (Jan. 1, 1906)
DIVISION 7 STATEN ISLAND
REORG. 1189 Castleton Ave. At L-104 (Nov. 1, 1906)
DIVISION 8 STATEN ISLAND
REORG. 1189 Castleton Ave. At L-104 (Nov. 15, 1907)
RELOC. 1850 Clove Rd. At E-160 (Nov. 26, 1930)
NQTRS. 875 Jewett Ave. W/ E-163 (Mar. 12, 1932)
RELOC. 60 Hannah St. At E-154 (Dec. 6, 1939)
RELOC. 1850 Clove Rd. At E-160 (May 14, 1940)
RELOC. 60 Hannah St. At E-154 (Dec. 3, 1941)
RELOC. 1850 Clove Rd. At E-160 ( 1951)
RELOC. 256 Hylan Blvd. At E-152 (Mar. 27, 1974)
DISB. (Nov. 22, 1975)
REORG. 1850 Clove Rd. At E-160 (Jul. 1, 1990)
DIVISION 6 STATEN ISLAND
RELOC. 1189 Castleton Ave. At L-104 (Jan. 1, 1906)
DIVISION 7 STATEN ISLAND
REORG. 1189 Castleton Ave. At L-104 (Nov. 1, 1906)
DIVISION 8 STATEN ISLAND
REORG. 1189 Castleton Ave. At L-104 (Nov. 15, 1907)
RELOC. 1850 Clove Rd. At E-160 (Nov. 26, 1930)
NQTRS. 875 Jewett Ave. W/ E-163 (Mar. 12, 1932)
RELOC. 60 Hannah St. At E-154 (Dec. 6, 1939)
RELOC. 1850 Clove Rd. At E-160 (May 14, 1940)
RELOC. 60 Hannah St. At E-154 (Dec. 3, 1941)
RELOC. 1850 Clove Rd. At E-160 ( 1951)
RELOC. 256 Hylan Blvd. At E-152 (Mar. 27, 1974)
DISB. (Nov. 22, 1975)
REORG. 1850 Clove Rd. At E-160 (Jul. 1, 1990)
"1970 - A New Era in the FDNY...Tactical Control Force" in WNYF (written by Chief of Dept O'Hagan). Some points from this summary:
Units: TCUs work 37 1/2 hrs; report for duty at 1430 hrs at a firehouse "in an outlying area"; 30 minutes to drive w/assigned apparatus to quarters they will operate from; in service as a conventional engine or truck until 0030 hrs; 30 minutes to drive back to firehouse where their apparatus is stored; work 3 shifts and then 85 hrs off; 5% night differential for all hrs; all members volunteers and interviewed and selected for their "firefighting experience, attitude, appearance, background and knowledge"; an officer and 7 firefighters in TCU trucks; an officer and 6 firefighters in engines; all engine and ladder companies in adaptive response areas have rosters of 31 firefighters and staffed with "a minimum of 6 firefighters at all times"; increased staffing to match 2 engine and 1 truck adaptive response; all non-firefighting details would be covered from an "administrative quota" of firefighters to maintain minimum unit manning.
Apparatus/Equipment: 180 new pumper contracts; 45 new ladders; 35 new tower ladders; power saws for all trucks and rescues; concrete breakers for rescue companes.
Quarters: Temporary pre-fab steel firehouses; modernization program for kitchens/bathrooms/"sitting rooms".
Administrative: Administrative firefighter aides to "10 busiest battalions or divisions and the 40 busiest companies"; Xerox machines for firehouse paperwork; new typewriters.
Communications: 3 walkie-talkies for each truck (officer/roofman/above the fire floor); 2 walkie talkies for each engine; new unit status contol and dispatching system development.
Some additional 1970 "What's New" (a later WNYF): 3 new rescue truck contracts (for Rescues 1, 3 and 4); new pumpers to have seating for 7; new trucks seating for 8; Polyox "rapid water" system for pumpers; 2 pumpers w/articulated boom nozzle; satellite fireboat located at E 331.
Note - These 1970 "new era" changes followed 1969 activity where Runs and Workers increased dramatically. These were only leading units:
Engine Runs Engine Workers Ladder Runs Ladder Workers Squad Runs Squad Workers Rescue Runs Rescue Workers
E94 7477 E290 4487 L31 7806 L31 5886 S3 8445 S4 2308 R2 3483 R2 1423
E73 6876 E82 4163 L48 7643 L120 4592 S4 8277 S3 953 R3** 2858 R3 684
E45 6758 E73 3856 L120 7127 L38 4172 S2* 7918 S2 849
E290 6655 E45 3805 L27 7070 L42 4041 **Located in Manhattan
E231 6290 E83 3773 L103-1 7032 L123 3946 *S2 operated as E73 during adaptive
E82 6183 E28 3621 L103-2 6752 L103-2 3831 response w/102 additional runs
E60 6081 E283 3458 L123 6624 L108 3604
L107 6298
L17 6166
L19 6157
L38 6104
There were 25 engine companies who had over 4500 runs.
There were 25 ladder companies with over 4300 runs.
Units: TCUs work 37 1/2 hrs; report for duty at 1430 hrs at a firehouse "in an outlying area"; 30 minutes to drive w/assigned apparatus to quarters they will operate from; in service as a conventional engine or truck until 0030 hrs; 30 minutes to drive back to firehouse where their apparatus is stored; work 3 shifts and then 85 hrs off; 5% night differential for all hrs; all members volunteers and interviewed and selected for their "firefighting experience, attitude, appearance, background and knowledge"; an officer and 7 firefighters in TCU trucks; an officer and 6 firefighters in engines; all engine and ladder companies in adaptive response areas have rosters of 31 firefighters and staffed with "a minimum of 6 firefighters at all times"; increased staffing to match 2 engine and 1 truck adaptive response; all non-firefighting details would be covered from an "administrative quota" of firefighters to maintain minimum unit manning.
Apparatus/Equipment: 180 new pumper contracts; 45 new ladders; 35 new tower ladders; power saws for all trucks and rescues; concrete breakers for rescue companes.
Quarters: Temporary pre-fab steel firehouses; modernization program for kitchens/bathrooms/"sitting rooms".
Administrative: Administrative firefighter aides to "10 busiest battalions or divisions and the 40 busiest companies"; Xerox machines for firehouse paperwork; new typewriters.
Communications: 3 walkie-talkies for each truck (officer/roofman/above the fire floor); 2 walkie talkies for each engine; new unit status contol and dispatching system development.
Some additional 1970 "What's New" (a later WNYF): 3 new rescue truck contracts (for Rescues 1, 3 and 4); new pumpers to have seating for 7; new trucks seating for 8; Polyox "rapid water" system for pumpers; 2 pumpers w/articulated boom nozzle; satellite fireboat located at E 331.
Note - These 1970 "new era" changes followed 1969 activity where Runs and Workers increased dramatically. These were only leading units:
Engine Runs Engine Workers Ladder Runs Ladder Workers Squad Runs Squad Workers Rescue Runs Rescue Workers
E94 7477 E290 4487 L31 7806 L31 5886 S3 8445 S4 2308 R2 3483 R2 1423
E73 6876 E82 4163 L48 7643 L120 4592 S4 8277 S3 953 R3** 2858 R3 684
E45 6758 E73 3856 L120 7127 L38 4172 S2* 7918 S2 849
E290 6655 E45 3805 L27 7070 L42 4041 **Located in Manhattan
E231 6290 E83 3773 L103-1 7032 L123 3946 *S2 operated as E73 during adaptive
E82 6183 E28 3621 L103-2 6752 L103-2 3831 response w/102 additional runs
E60 6081 E283 3458 L123 6624 L108 3604
L107 6298
L17 6166
L19 6157
L38 6104
There were 25 engine companies who had over 4500 runs.
There were 25 ladder companies with over 4300 runs.
Thanks also, vbcapt. I also remember 69 Mets' point about the 8th Division becoming "something else" after being disbanded in 1975. I think they became a "boro command" for quite a while. They had a chief and assistant chief located at E160 and I think it was a 9-5/Mon-Fri operation. The 12th Div was relocated closer to SI (E242) while the 8th was disbanded.
etc, etc, etc.mack said:
Thanks "MACK" for taking the time to type all that out. It is a FDNY War Years History Lesson all in itself. My first WNYF Magazine was a gift given to me by Lt Richard Hamilton (Author of 20,000 Alarms) of Brooklyn's Rescue 2. That was my first real introduction to the FDNY and he gave me the "Third Issue 1968". Since then I've been a steady reader. And every once in awhile I enjoy going through those older issues.
Last I heard Lt Hamilton is living in Calif and is 86 years old. He does have some major health problems though, but still hasn't lost that sense of humor he has always had. What a GREAT WAR YEARS FIREFIGHTER !!!
Thanks again "MACK" for that Great WAR YEARS Review.
I borrowed some information from another web site that I thought a lot of our readers would be interested in. In 1969, Engine 82 did 9,111 runs. It's partner Ladder Co #31 did 8,597 runs. And we're talking NO EMS or CO Alarms. No company has ever beaten that. And as I've read, alot of the runs were just put on a slip of paper and Never put into the books. So I'm sure there were even more runs than that and what most of those War Year Companies actually listed.
In addition around that time, Engine 85 was in service and the TCU Ladder Co (712, I think), to help pick up the slack. All running out of 82s quarters. I can still remember my first visit up to the neighborhood. It was right after reading the book "Report from Engine 82". As I remember, Charlotte St was still mostly occupied 5 and 6 Brick MDs. I think there was a school on the corner of Intervale and Chisholm St. It might have been vacant at the time and that school later burned. I know it was after Ladder 31 recieved the Tower Ladder and no longer had the American LaFrance Tiller. The "Tin House" at Boston and 169 St hadn't been built yet. Later Engine 85 became a Lime Green Engine and TCU 712 became Ladder Co 59 running out of that "Tin House".
The rearmount ladder companies were just starting to appear also. Ladder 42 or 27 might have been the first I saw. I thought they would NEVER work out for the FDNY. Of course I really didn't want to see those Tillers be a thing of the past. On the contrary, I sure thought those Tower Ladders were the right thing. The first one I saw operate was TL 54 at a job near 82's. 44 also had one. I was sure wrong about the rearmounts.
In addition around that time, Engine 85 was in service and the TCU Ladder Co (712, I think), to help pick up the slack. All running out of 82s quarters. I can still remember my first visit up to the neighborhood. It was right after reading the book "Report from Engine 82". As I remember, Charlotte St was still mostly occupied 5 and 6 Brick MDs. I think there was a school on the corner of Intervale and Chisholm St. It might have been vacant at the time and that school later burned. I know it was after Ladder 31 recieved the Tower Ladder and no longer had the American LaFrance Tiller. The "Tin House" at Boston and 169 St hadn't been built yet. Later Engine 85 became a Lime Green Engine and TCU 712 became Ladder Co 59 running out of that "Tin House".
The rearmount ladder companies were just starting to appear also. Ladder 42 or 27 might have been the first I saw. I thought they would NEVER work out for the FDNY. Of course I really didn't want to see those Tillers be a thing of the past. On the contrary, I sure thought those Tower Ladders were the right thing. The first one I saw operate was TL 54 at a job near 82's. 44 also had one. I was sure wrong about the rearmounts.
The amount of work done by E82 and L31 is absolutely amazing. I
ncredibly, the squad companies during that period also did a staggering amount of runs. WNYF lists Sq 4 (15th Div) at 9694 runs for 1970. Squad 3 (11th Div) had 9278 runs. Squad 1 (5th Div) responded 7892 times. In 1971, Squad 4 responded 9795 times. Squad 1 had 7841 runs and Squad 3 had 7550 runs. That's over 19,000 runs for Squad 4 in only 2 years. The squads were not special operations units back then but operated as manpower units.
Battalion chiefs also did a great amount of running before they created 2nd sections and then new battalions. On the Bn44 webpage ( http://www.watkinsst.com/battalion-44-history-complete.pdf ), there is a highlight about the amount of runs the battalion stacked up - over 10, 000 in 1971. "The Bn44 aide Seymour Schenker reported over the Department Radio, 'The 44th Battalion has just completed its 10,000th run' to which the dispatcher replied 'Congratulations Bn44, now take in number 10, 0001.' "
By the way, Ladder 120 notes that they responded 10,989 times in 1971 on their web site but WNYF lists them as the busiest ladder company that year with 8013 runs.
ncredibly, the squad companies during that period also did a staggering amount of runs. WNYF lists Sq 4 (15th Div) at 9694 runs for 1970. Squad 3 (11th Div) had 9278 runs. Squad 1 (5th Div) responded 7892 times. In 1971, Squad 4 responded 9795 times. Squad 1 had 7841 runs and Squad 3 had 7550 runs. That's over 19,000 runs for Squad 4 in only 2 years. The squads were not special operations units back then but operated as manpower units.
Battalion chiefs also did a great amount of running before they created 2nd sections and then new battalions. On the Bn44 webpage ( http://www.watkinsst.com/battalion-44-history-complete.pdf ), there is a highlight about the amount of runs the battalion stacked up - over 10, 000 in 1971. "The Bn44 aide Seymour Schenker reported over the Department Radio, 'The 44th Battalion has just completed its 10,000th run' to which the dispatcher replied 'Congratulations Bn44, now take in number 10, 0001.' "
By the way, Ladder 120 notes that they responded 10,989 times in 1971 on their web site but WNYF lists them as the busiest ladder company that year with 8013 runs.
Say whatever you want about the old squads and the number of runs they did; when a fire was out, they never stayed around to help the engine companies pick up hose. They were more interested in getting into their "pie wagons" and going on another run. They were not always respected by the real companies, and that's the truth.
mack said:
You're correct about the squads Mack ... I remember that Squad 4 at that time was assigned a Mack CF pumper. All of the firefighters at that time regardless of the type of unit they were assigned to did a tremendous amount of structural fire duty. I have a tremendous amount of respect for all of them as I was fortunate to see them in action frequently from 1968 - 1981. I went on the job in 1981 and although I did plenty of fire duty during my career, it could never approach that which those who came before me did ...
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Just remember the SQUAD 4 ( Bristol Street ) motto..............B.M.A. ( BROTHERS MY ASS )...............This is what I was told back in the 70's by a firefighter named Benny Zieverko who transferred from SQ.4 to E.319.........Benny RIP...........BMA..............
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Yes, you are correct. BMA! But I don't it was limited to Sq.4 It became pretty widespread about just after the firemen's strike.
It also became the by-word of Disp. Newt Tanner and "Group 1" of the Brooklyn C.O.
It also became the by-word of Disp. Newt Tanner and "Group 1" of the Brooklyn C.O.
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bklyndisp54 said:
Dispatcher54- U on any of the War Years audio I posted ?
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Also, the Tin House (E-232 and L-176) used the "BMA" slogan a lot. I always thought "BMA" originated at the Tin House
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I didn't take a good listen, but it would be a fluke if you caught me there. I usually tried to sit as D.D. or Voice Alarm/Bells if I didn't get stuck as A.R.D. My radio time could be best described as "guest appearances". In this photo, for example, I assist the radio/out dispatcher (Cheech) improve the audio quality of the transmitted signal.
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After 232 was given the royal shaft, we received a arm band with 232 and BMA printed on it. The guy I was speaking about from Sq 4 that transferred to 319 was already out of the job when 232 got the royal shaft, so I have to continue to believe the saying BMA came from Sq 4
bklyndisp54 said:
I didn't take a good listen, but it would be a fluke if you caught me there. I usually tried to sit as D.D. or Voice Alarm/Bells if I didn't get stuck as A.R.D. My radio time could be best described as "guest appearances". In this photo, for example, I assist the radio/out dispatcher (Cheech) improve the audio quality of the transmitted signal.
Great Picture Guys.