My younger Buff years
- Thread starter nfd2004
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When I first started buffing the South Bronx, watching those tiller ladders was a Great Thrill. I'd watch those tillermen make those turns and zig zag between the pillars of the overhead subway lines. As I remember then, The Third Ave El was still in operation back then. I'm talking maybe 1970/71.
I would watch Ladder 31 as they would roll through the streets. Most of the ladders then I remember were ALF Tillers. Just maybe two Tower Ladders in the Bronx. (44 and 54). Then came word that FDNY would be getting Seagrave Rear Mount Ladders. I had never seen a "rearmount ladder" before. After watching these tillers go through the tight narrow streets with double parked cars, I had my doubts that they would be able to work out in this very busy neighborhood.
As I remember, Engine 46 and Ladder 27 had just got their new quarters at the Cross Bronx and Washington Ave. The area looked quite different than it does now. One look around the neighborhood told you that, this is a "Working Outfit". I think it was then that I saw my first rearmount ladder, and I think it was Ladder 27. It didn't take to long for that ladder to prove it's worth, and prove me wrong. Where there were once ALL Tillers, today in the Bronx, there is only one left. Looking back those many years ago, I never thought that would happen.
And for those interested, Norwich, Ct purchased the 1970 Seagrave Rearmount used as Ladder Co 109. It was just taken out of service in the Fall of 2009. Thirty nine years of service that started out as the busy Brooklyn Ladder Co 109.
I would watch Ladder 31 as they would roll through the streets. Most of the ladders then I remember were ALF Tillers. Just maybe two Tower Ladders in the Bronx. (44 and 54). Then came word that FDNY would be getting Seagrave Rear Mount Ladders. I had never seen a "rearmount ladder" before. After watching these tillers go through the tight narrow streets with double parked cars, I had my doubts that they would be able to work out in this very busy neighborhood.
As I remember, Engine 46 and Ladder 27 had just got their new quarters at the Cross Bronx and Washington Ave. The area looked quite different than it does now. One look around the neighborhood told you that, this is a "Working Outfit". I think it was then that I saw my first rearmount ladder, and I think it was Ladder 27. It didn't take to long for that ladder to prove it's worth, and prove me wrong. Where there were once ALL Tillers, today in the Bronx, there is only one left. Looking back those many years ago, I never thought that would happen.
And for those interested, Norwich, Ct purchased the 1970 Seagrave Rearmount used as Ladder Co 109. It was just taken out of service in the Fall of 2009. Thirty nine years of service that started out as the busy Brooklyn Ladder Co 109.
I thought I'd pass this on which was written by a Retired Chief from the 38 Battalion about the War Years.
"I feel the War Years started the summer of 66. and were probadly over early to mid 80s. I had a job at Union and Lynch. The Blackout was a week before. The job was in a 4 story factory, and on arrival, the fire was on the first floor loading dock. Came close to giving an 18, but wanted to wait for Eng 216 to get water. The F...ers were using diesel or #2 fuel oil as opposed to gasoline. Within 5 minutes, sent out a 2nd alarm. Fire was on all floors, out about 20 windows, and had extended to exp. 2, occupied 3 story frames".
"I don't know who dubbed them the War Years, but boy, he sure was on the money".
Quoted from "Kimba"
FDNY Retired Batt Chief
"I feel the War Years started the summer of 66. and were probadly over early to mid 80s. I had a job at Union and Lynch. The Blackout was a week before. The job was in a 4 story factory, and on arrival, the fire was on the first floor loading dock. Came close to giving an 18, but wanted to wait for Eng 216 to get water. The F...ers were using diesel or #2 fuel oil as opposed to gasoline. Within 5 minutes, sent out a 2nd alarm. Fire was on all floors, out about 20 windows, and had extended to exp. 2, occupied 3 story frames".
"I don't know who dubbed them the War Years, but boy, he sure was on the money".
Quoted from "Kimba"
FDNY Retired Batt Chief
I sure do miss those days of buffing the War Years. I'd get to see NYCs Bravest fight those fires Every time I was there. Sometimes, somebody will ask me what was the Biggest Fire I ever saw while buffing there. Actually, I guess the Biggest went to only a fifth alarm and that was in a large factory in Williamsburg section of Brooklyn. I even forget what street. But I left from the Bronx to chase it. I remember only two tower ladders operating, and the rest, maybe three, were ladder pipes. It was probadly around 1976. Of course there was that huge Brooklyn job on Knockerbocker Ave, the telephone company, a large warehouse on 30th St in Manhattan, The Big Pine St job in Brooklyn etc, etc. I never caught any of these jobs. Mostly went down the next day to check it out.
But by far, the most Impressive fires I saw were the fires unfortunately in occupied buildings. That's where these FDNY Members would really show their stuff. Maybe a fire on an upper floor of an occupied MD. On arrival of the first in companies, lines would be stretched, glass flying, the sound of saws opening up those roofs, people being rescued by ladders and fire escapes etc. The black smoke turned to white smoke. Shots of water from the inside line would land on the sidewalk below. And before you knew it, the fire was out. Each one would have been a major fire for most other cities. But for the FDNY, it was just another routine neighborhood fire. No headlines, no news coverage. Maybe the "first", of a few more similiar fires these War Years Firefighters would catch during their shift.
Today, that same scenario is played out in the streets of N.Y.C. Same tactics, same rescues, just not as often as it was during those Historic Times. But the same quick, aggressive knock down occurs almost on a daily basis.
But by far, the most Impressive fires I saw were the fires unfortunately in occupied buildings. That's where these FDNY Members would really show their stuff. Maybe a fire on an upper floor of an occupied MD. On arrival of the first in companies, lines would be stretched, glass flying, the sound of saws opening up those roofs, people being rescued by ladders and fire escapes etc. The black smoke turned to white smoke. Shots of water from the inside line would land on the sidewalk below. And before you knew it, the fire was out. Each one would have been a major fire for most other cities. But for the FDNY, it was just another routine neighborhood fire. No headlines, no news coverage. Maybe the "first", of a few more similiar fires these War Years Firefighters would catch during their shift.
Today, that same scenario is played out in the streets of N.Y.C. Same tactics, same rescues, just not as often as it was during those Historic Times. But the same quick, aggressive knock down occurs almost on a daily basis.
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nfd2004 said:
Which leads to a trivia question: What Brooklyn box is/was known as the "Beer Box", and why?
You already have part of the answer.
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Box 813 it is! Buy that man a cold one!
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When buffing E241/L109 in the mid-1960's I became the "gopher" and was often sent to pick up the suds at a local tavern when the deli's were closed. The bars were charging the premium price of a quarter a can. That was all before AUC-202, of course. 
B
Bigandy
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Was drinking on the job frowned upon back than?
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bklyndisp54 said:When buffing E241/L109 in the mid-1960's I became the "gopher" and was often sent to pick up the suds at a local tavern when the deli's were closed. The bars were charging the premium price of a quarter a can. That was all before AUC-202, of course.
Fire Department Regulations ? 25.1.5 provides that ?[m]embers in uniform, or when on duty, shall not at any time, indulge in, or be under the influence of intoxicating liquors.? Another regulation, All Unit Circular 202, titled, ?Substance Policy: Drug/Alcohol,? dated February 1, 1996 (?AUC 202?), describes in detail FDNY policies, prohibitions, and penalties with respect to the consumption of alcohol by firefighters in uniform or on duty. (AUC 202 ? 2.1). FDNY rules and regulations strictly prohibit the ?use?.or delivery of alcohol while on duty,? as well as the ?use or possession of alcohol while in uniform or in any Department quarters? by firefighters who are off duty. (AUC 202 ?? 4.4 and 4.5). All members -- both fire officers and firefighters -- are required to immediately report any violation of these rules to a superior officer. Members who fail to make such a report may be subject to disciplinary action. (AUC 202 ? 5.1). Officers have particular responsibilities for enforcing AUC ? 202. Specifically, ?Officers on duty will be held strictly accountable for compliance by their subordinates with these policies,? and they are subject to discipline if they fail to do so. (AUC 202 ? 5.2). For example, if an officer discovers that an on-duty member has consumed alcohol in quarters, he must immediately relieve that member from duty; notify his superior officer; notify the Bureau of Investigations and Trials (BITS); and document this matter in the company journal, (AUC 202 ? 5.6.1).
10 Under the NYS Vehicle and Traffic Law, one is in violation of Driving While Impaired when operating a motor
nfd2004 said:
Which leads to a trivia question: What Brooklyn box is/was known as the "Beer Box", and why?
You already have part of the answer.
[/quote]
Knickerbocker Avenue & Schaefer Street (Ruppert Knickerbocker and Schaefer were brands of beer that were brewed in N.Y.C.)
[/quote]
All those Brooklyn Bushwick fires and never gave it a thought of the Beer Box #813. And some Great memories of those beer commericals as the FDNY War Years were in full swing. (and $3.99 a case-yes how we remember).
A little off track here, but a few of our Baby Boomer Friends may like this. www.oldfortyfives.com/DYRT htm "G-man", "JohnnyD", maybe "69Mets", "mikeindabronx", "bklyndisp",. I think we can relate to this
Around the Fall of 1977 the city decided to add about 200-300 Fire Marshalls. The city had to do something to deal with the huge arson problem of the War Years. Entire neighborhoods were wiped out. I mean Nothing left. Buildings and people gone. They would be called "The Red Caps", because of their familiar Red Baseball caps they would wear. This was right after they had closed several fire companies also.
After the Blackout and that huge Brooklyn Boro call in Bushwich which was arson, something had to be done.
These Fire Marshalls became highly visible in some of the busy arson prone areas. Of course priorities were put on which fires were investigated with occupied buildings having the highest. But they investigated everything they could. They used unmarked cars and wore civilian clothes and were similiar to the NYPD Anti Crime Units. They also had powers of arrest and carried a weapon.
The Red Cap Program started to work. I remember reading my January, 1978 issue of the Fire Bell Club Newsletter. It was the first time that the fires showed a drop in All Hands and Multiple Alarms. I could also see a slow down in the number of fires during my buffing trips. It was still very busy and continued into the 80s, but the Red Caps had a Huge impact on ending those Very Busy, Historic War Years. In some neighborhoods fires were just an every day occurrance and nothing out of the ordinary. The Red Caps changed that all within a few short months. They were very successful and people knew that if they got caught setting fires, they would be arrested.
I remember after they caught the young 16 (?) year old that set the huge Brooklyn Fire in Bushwick. All he cared about was getting his picture in the paper. Didn't even think he did anything wrong. The Red Caps changed all that.
After the Blackout and that huge Brooklyn Boro call in Bushwich which was arson, something had to be done.
These Fire Marshalls became highly visible in some of the busy arson prone areas. Of course priorities were put on which fires were investigated with occupied buildings having the highest. But they investigated everything they could. They used unmarked cars and wore civilian clothes and were similiar to the NYPD Anti Crime Units. They also had powers of arrest and carried a weapon.
The Red Cap Program started to work. I remember reading my January, 1978 issue of the Fire Bell Club Newsletter. It was the first time that the fires showed a drop in All Hands and Multiple Alarms. I could also see a slow down in the number of fires during my buffing trips. It was still very busy and continued into the 80s, but the Red Caps had a Huge impact on ending those Very Busy, Historic War Years. In some neighborhoods fires were just an every day occurrance and nothing out of the ordinary. The Red Caps changed that all within a few short months. They were very successful and people knew that if they got caught setting fires, they would be arrested.
I remember after they caught the young 16 (?) year old that set the huge Brooklyn Fire in Bushwick. All he cared about was getting his picture in the paper. Didn't even think he did anything wrong. The Red Caps changed all that.
B
Bigandy
Guest
Do you think w/o the red caps the War Years activity would have continued, lets say into the later 80's, early 90's?
Bigandy said:
I do think the activity would have continued for many more years. When the South Bronx was pretty well burnt out, places like the West Bronx and the streets above Tremont Ave to Fordham Rd started getting busy. And that's just the Bronx. Before the Red Caps, we used to say that there's enough here for our lifetime of buffing. And during those busy years, there was nothing at all to indicate that the fires would slow down. As the busy years approached the 1975s, 76, 77, it just was getting worse. Just a guess, but I'd say the Busy War Years actually peaked out around 1976/77. By then some areas like 82s had already peaked out. Most of their response area was already burned out. The fires of the Bronx then started to move West and North. In fact, Battalion 27 had been moved from 82s to 79. Ladder 59 was moved from Eng 85 to Eng 43. And this was just the Bronx. The same was going on in some of the other hard hit areas of the city.
No doubt, the Red Caps actually prevented the city from burning down. I think before that, there were just too many fires and not enough fire marshalls to make any difference at all. Adding those fire marshalls with their high visibility, and word of mouth that arsonist would now be going to jail did make a difference.
Bill - I remember the Red Cap Program and they were very visible and effective. Was is a combined FDNY/NYPD program? Were the teams made up of a cop and a fire marshal? I seem to remember that there was one program which teamed a fire marshal up with a cop. That might have been a special program targeting certain areas or even false alarms.
mack said:
Mack, I think as the War Years were ending, it was the FDNY Fire Marshalls working WITHOUT NYPD that basically ended those very active years. But I do remember a few years later when several people died in an illegal Social Club fire, I think on Jerome Ave in the Bronx. I think it was then, that a Special Task Force was formed of FDNY Fire Marshalls, and NYPD Members to combat those Illegal sites. That was maybe in the early 80s. Mack, maybe that's it. Does anybody remember that fire ???