My younger Buff years

[Bronx72]

The discussion about the residents not caring raises a different question for me.
Today, news crews are all over most fires in the city so anytime there's flame or a multiple alarm, we get to see it in some form. Injuries to civilians or firefighters and (God forbid) deaths get special attention.
But what makes a fire incident significant?  One that is worthy of being listed in a fire chronology or published in a newsletter or magazine?  This web-site has contributors who chronicle all the incidents.  But, they are like many of those forgotten fires in the ghettos during the War Years: they are routine.  That doesn't mean I don't want to know about them. But what makes some incidents stand out from the others?  I'd be interested in your thoughts.

 

[grumpy grizzly]

Chicago has the WORST fire coverage, although I like the helicopter from CBS (2) and NBC (5) And to answer your question I live in a 2 1/2 25 x 75, fire in the second floor would be a significant fire in my opinion, I live on the first floor. How does the fire impact other residents? We all do not live on Park Ave. GG

 

[nfd2004]

The discussion about the residents not caring raises a different question for me.
Today, news crews are all over most fires in the city so anytime there's flame or a multiple alarm, we get to see it in some form. Injuries to civilians or firefighters and (God forbid) deaths get special attention.
But what makes a fire incident significant?  One that is worthy of being listed in a fire chronology or published in a newsletter or magazine?  This web-site has contributors who chronicle all the incidents.  But, they are like many of those forgotten fires in the ghettos during the War Years: they are routine.  That doesn't mean I don't want to know about them. But what makes some incidents stand out from the others?  I'd be interested in your thoughts.

  Rob (Bronx72) there were fires EVERYDAY. My GUESS is that maybe Citywide there were 40 to 50 fires everyday. And maybe more. Thats a fact. Very seldom did any of those fires make any news coverage. Even a Fourth Alarm in those neighborhoods didn't make it. There were probdly fatal fires just about everyday and unless it was a half dozen people or so, nobody knew about it. Sometimes even the people in the immediate neighborhood didn't care. I remember seeing a few Fifth Alarms myself in the Bronx, Harlem, and Brooklyn, and not a word about it in the newspapers or TV.

  Unless it was a Major fire that would affect traffic or communiting, or serious enough to take the lives of four or five people, there was nothing at all.

  Today its much different. A third Alarm may get coverage because that is a much less occurance now. Or a fatal fire may get coverage. I think where things have changed is with the type of incidents. Things like water rescue, pin jobs, building collapse etc. The FDNY is much more involved in that now than they were before. No doubt because they were just so busy back then with fire activity.

  As an example, during the War Years there were only a certain number of Ladder Companies that carried a hurst tool. Maybe only 20 city wide as I remember it. Today I believe that every ladder company carries extrication equipment. Same for the Squad Companies of the War Years. They were basically manpower companies that could do both engine and truck work because there were so many fires. Todays Squad Companies get involved in High Angle Rope Rescue, Vehicle Rescue, Building collapse, or HazMat etc.

  While the fires have certainly slowed down today, the type of work done has increased.

 

[mack]

40 years ago, no one had smart phones.  Today, everyone has one.  Today, it is much easier for the media to create fire stories, see FFs faces, interview victims.  Everyone is more also aware of the fire service, maybe more appreciative. 

Also, as Bill stated, there were so many fires back then that they were ignored by the media.  It was easier and more interesting to report on - multiple killings, violent attacks, gang activities, subway breakdowns, ferryboat problems, school problems, 100 y/o tenaments falling apart, garbage, litter and grafitti everywhere and the city was broke.  No one cared about the four or five 2nd alarms in neighborhoods that no one cared about.  If you asked people to rate the top 10 problems in NYC, fires would not make most lists back then, even though fires were tremendously out of control. 

I think people tend to take for granted things that work every day.  The fire department still worked back then, when everything else didn't.  It wasn't news that firefighters put out fires.     

 

[Bronx72]

Here's the reason I ask the question...
I am working on a timeline of FDNY history and facts.  So far, it includes (or plans to include) company locations, apparatus, runs of the top companies (not workers), department orders, innovations, major fire incidents, LODDs, appointments, unit citations, medal winners.  The idea is to put all of this previously collected information together into one database.  It's not close to done, but already I can filter out a company like Engine 91 and see all the above information on one sheet of paper - its history.  Or see all the companies that served in a particular firehouse.  Or discover that E58 was the the busiest company (of any type)  in the city every year from 1949-1956 and in the Top 15 every year through 1966, except 1963 when it was squeezed off the Top 15 by 5 busier Squad Companies.

It's the Incidents category that are hard to determine.  What should the criteria be?  There are obvious major ones like the 23rd St fire, 9-11, the Constellation, the big fire in Bushwick, etc.  Those that are written up in WNYF can be used.  Incidents where FF and civilians died are notable.  Then there are those days when there were numerous multiples occurring.  But it seems that the unbelievable fire activity of the War Years might almost get lost because major fires and heavy workload were so commonplace.

 

[grumpy grizzly]

Grumpy has the utmost respect for your undertaking. 99% of the population only thinks of FD when they respond. Those of us on the other side understand no two days the same, nothing or everything. Kudo to E262 for winning the Food netwotk challange, he gave the money to Autisim awareness.

 

[kristensen]

Sorry to ask; but what picture is that?

Bill - I thought about your post - the picture  taken across the street from the firehouse - all the cars with buffs - scanners waiting for jobs to hit.

 

[nfd2004]

 

  But anyway, Frank told me a little story that pertains to the above quote. Frank was on a job for Con Ed and got talking to the home owner. The guy said that he was a retired FDNY Firefighter. Along with that, Frank saw a picture that this member had taken while working at that firehouse on Intervale Ave. It was taken looking across the street towards Angies Market. There was a Large crowd in that picture. Frank asked the guy (retired member) if there was a street fight going on or something. That Retired FDNY Firefighter said; "No, that Large Crowd is a picture of the many Buffs that used to hang out there every night".

  Yes Frank, I remember it well. Those were quite the days.

  This is what I was referring to. Actually it was Frank D (fdce54) that saw the picture in a retired members home who had worked 82/31 back in the day. Frank told me the story and I passed it along. But Fran was the one that saw that picture. I wish we could get it posted on here.

 

[FDNY150]

The pictures I am about to post are from an event held out in California last year. I cracked a joke at the beginning of this thread about those guys from LA County Station 51 catching work left and right. Here's how the rigs look today, almost fully restored. ALL PHOTOS BY ME!!!!
Here's Fire Station 127, as it looked in 2007.






I will tease a little, the old Truck 127, once a Crown Snorkel, has been replaced by a KME 75 foot tillered quint. Engine 127's Crown has been replaced by a 2006 KME pumper.




Squad 51, in front of FS 127, and at the LA County Fire Museum in Bellflower the next day.





The original Engine 51, a 1965 Crown Firecoach




The second Engine 51, a 1972 Ward La France Ambassador. Photos taken at FS127 and at the museum.






And Finally, the Present Day Engine and Squad 51, Quartered in Universal Studios Hollywood. Engine 51 is a 1998 KME, and Squad 51 is a 2005 Ford.

 

[kristensen]

 

  But anyway, Frank told me a little story that pertains to the above quote. Frank was on a job for Con Ed and got talking to the home owner. The guy said that he was a retired FDNY Firefighter. Along with that, Frank saw a picture that this member had taken while working at that firehouse on Intervale Ave. It was taken looking across the street towards Angies Market. There was a Large crowd in that picture. Frank asked the guy (retired member) if there was a street fight going on or something. That Retired FDNY Firefighter said; "No, that Large Crowd is a picture of the many Buffs that used to hang out there every night".

  Yes Frank, I remember it well. Those were quite the days.

  This is what I was referring to. Actually it was Frank D (fdce54) that saw the picture in a retired members home who had worked 82/31 back in the day. Frank told me the story and I passed it along. But Fran was the one that saw that picture. I wish we could get it posted on here.

Thanks a lot. Yes! It sure would be great to see that picture.
All the best

 

[nfd2004]

A few more memories from those very busy years. Thanks to "Patrickfd" for passing this on to me. I don't know the photographer, but he has some Excellent photos to share.

  http://www.flickr.com/photos/9772325@N04/sets/72157600793649878/show/

 

[mack]

As a kid, I visited Engine 155 and Ladder 78 quarters on Brighton Avenue.  My father was detailed there often.  Rescue 5 in its early days was not manned.  In the 1950s - early 1960s, it was manned by the members of Ladder 78 when the rescue had a run.  Ladder 78 was always assigned extra guys 7 or 8.  They used to leave a guy back whenever they had a run to drive the rescue rig if a special call or job came in for the rescue.  The truck had a limited response area because of their double service duties.  They never relocated.  If a multiple on SI was transmitted, they would respond with the rescue, if assigned, and not as the truck.  Looking back, it must have been hard for them to train.  They were located on SI and there was no VN Bridge.  They built their own rig.  It was a good house to work in.  Rescue 5 was disbanded after the VN Bridge opened and Rescue 2 covered until Rescue 5 was reformed at Engine 160 in the 1980s.   

 

[nfd2004]

Thanks "mack" for that info. I was not aware of that at all. Just a little before my buffing time. But I do remember when Rescue 2 would respond over to Staten Island because there was no Rescue there. That is really quite a ride.

  I remember when Rescue 5 had just been put in service during the 80s to cover Staten Island. They had gotten a used Rescue, (or should I say "Pre Owned"). It might have been Rescue 2s older rig. I made the trip out to Staten Island because I wanted to get a rig shot of it. It had been repainted and was the first rescue to have the White over Red color scheme. I remember driving from the Bronx onto the BQE and then over to the VN Bridge. I had never been that far in the city. As I drove along the BQE I couldn't believe how really HUGE this city was. Miles and miles of buildings. Large shipping docks with huge ships etc. And at this point, I hadn't even been to the Boro of Queens.

  I think the city had 210 Engine Companies, and maybe 108 Ladder Companies with a population of about 7 MILLION People then. About Three times the size of my Entire Home State of Connecticut.

  My first subway ride was from the Bronx to Coney Island. I think I wanted to go out there to get a picture of the Battalion rig (Batt 45) because it had a picture of a clown and carvinal on it. I had gotten on the subway, and I think it was an Express Train. I rode this thing for maybe an hour or two. I thought, "does this ride ever end". "When do I reach Coney Island" ? All that time on the train and I never actually left New York City. Again, I couldn't believe how Huge this city was.

  Everything is on such a Massive scale. If you're a buff from outside the city and have never been there, you'll never see everything in a week. Even two weeks. Bring your scanner but its sometimes diffucult to follow the action of the entire FDNY at once. And if you want to listen to the cops, they have about 50 channels. Maybe more. The same for the FDNY EMS. This is not like buffing any other city. Its just too Big with too much going on.

  To this day, I consider myself very lucky to live within driving distance of the Best and Busiest Fire Dept in the World. In my opinion, yes, I guess I'm a little spoiled. Nothing else compares to it.

  Back in the mid 70s, I had taken the test to get on the job in Washington, D.C. and I guess I did pretty good. I had gone down to D.C. and talked to a Battalion Chief in charge of Training, and he said to me, "It looks like you will be getting called". I still needed to take the physical for the job. But at the same time I was offered the job in a small city in Eastern, Ct. I decided to take that smaller city job. And one of the reasons I did that was because I didn't want to move too far away from my favorite place. That was New York City, and at the time, the very busy War Years were in full swing. The place was really burning. So I got on the job as a firefighter in this much smaller city, and spent a lot of my time off buffing the Busiest Fire Dept in the World. At the time, all records had been broken and since then, NO Fire Dept has seen activity like that.

  And to this day, some 35 or 40 years later, I still chase the calls for the FDNY. And I also feel that I made the right decision taking that job in this smaller Connecticut city. But it was because of the FDNY, and just a few other things that kept me from going after that D.C. Fire Dept job. Forty years later, I made some good friends in the NYC area through this web site, who have the same interest. I just wish I knew them in "My Younger Buff Years", some 30 or 40 years ago.

 

[BritishAndy]

I have followed this thread since its first page way back, and I often find myself continually coming back to read the same incredible stories of buffing in NYC during the 'War Years'.
Living in England I have yet to make the journey across the pond to experience the FDNY first hand, but that will be very soon.
In the meantime, I keep reading my collection of books such as 'The Fire Factory', 'Report from Engine Co.82' and 'The Brave'. One thing that still shocks me, all these years after first reading Dennis Smith's classic, is A, the amount of runs some of the companies were responding on, and B, the sheer amount of different things people would pull the box for - water leaks, panic attacks, stabbings, shootings, its truly incredible!

As I have said before, keep the stories flowing, they deserve to be published in a book!

 

[nfd2004]

I have followed this thread since its first page way back, and I often find myself continually coming back to read the same incredible stories of buffing in NYC during the 'War Years'.
Living in England I have yet to make the journey across the pond to experience the FDNY first hand, but that will be very soon.
In the meantime, I keep reading my collection of books such as 'The Fire Factory', 'Report from Engine Co.82' and 'The Brave'. One thing that still shocks me, all these years after first reading Dennis Smith's classic, is A, the amount of runs some of the companies were responding on, and B, the sheer amount of different things people would pull the box for - water leaks, panic attacks, stabbings, shootings, its truly incredible!

As I have said before, keep the stories flowing, they deserve to be published in a book!

  "BritishAndy", its nice to know that people are still interested in reading some of these stories. Its like an entire history of just what happened during those very busy years for the FDNY. I don't see how anything like that could ever be repeated. It was completely overwelming. It's very hard for some people today to just try to understand how busy and just how out of control things were then. The guys that worked the job then were INCREDIABLE. I have no idea how they did it. Some of those buildingsc they went into looking for occupants were dangerous to be in during the daytime, without a fire. Let alone the smoke and heat. Holes in the floors, stirs missing etc., etc. They sure got my respect. Man, this was some dangerous stuff and they would do this as just part of their rountine work.

  And we talk about the War Years which I guess were from the mid 60s to late 70s. But during the 1980s, they were still catching a lot of work. Many neighborhoods were already completely burned out and there was nothing left. Others were starting to pick up in activity. So it didn't completely end with the late 70s.

  Along with the 1980s, just as a point of interest, the fires started to spread to many other cities, espically the older cities of the Northeast U.S. In New Jersey, places like Newark, Jersey, Paterson and Elizabeth saw their work pick up. In New York State, it was Yonkers, Buffalo, Rochester etc. In Connecticiut it was Hartford, Bridgeport, New Haven. Cities like Boston, Providence etc too. They all picked up in work.

  As an example, many people who had burned themselves out of the South Bronx started relocating to Bridgeport, Ct. On a smaller scale, it was the South Bronx all over again and it lasted for about 10-12 years. If you're interested, I wrote about "Bridgeports War Years" on a web site www.ctfire-ems.com . If you need any help with being able to read that just send me a "pm".

  But it all started with the FDNY. When I first started buffing the FDNY I never thought smaller cities would feel the same effects, but they did. And it was brought on by some of the same people that were responsible for the fires in NYC like the South Bronx, Harlem, The Lower East Side, Bushwick, Bed Sty and Brownsville. Sometimes I would talk to the people and they told me where they used to live. I'd usually be able to hit it off pretrty good with them because I knew their old neighborhood.

  So for a period of a few decades, it wasn't just the FDNY War Years. Later it was Hartfords War Years. Or Newarks War Years, Or Buffalos War Years. They all had their share. And they too became known as "The Greatest Generation of Firefighters".

 

[nfd2004]

And sometimes we think it never really happened.

  https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.237328012965638.65058.237316342966805&type=1

  (taken from the Rant and posted by "FDNYTrucks.com.........Thank you)

 

[69 METS]

Hey Willy ... Did you have anything to do with seeing to it that the McDonalds logo was included in the thumbnails???

 

[nfd2004]

Hey Willy ... Did you have anything to do with seeing to it that the McDonalds logo was included in the thumbnails???

  Garrett, I had to make sure the McDonalds logo was in the pictures. McDonalds was always a part of buffing the FDNY War Years. But you'd have to search a little harder then to find one. There just weren't too many around then to serve the many burned out neighborhoods. A hamburger was maybe 39 cents. About the same for a shake or fries.

  When the McDonalds was opened on Webster Ave near Clairmont Ave, that became a Great spot to hang out at. West of Webster Ave was starting to pick up quickly in fire activity. There was plenty around to burn there. That McDonalds gave us a place to sit and keep cool in the summer, and warm in the winter. A place with a restroom, and a place to get some chow. It was pretty easy to get into the West Bronx, which was really picking up. We could pretty easily head north or south, and it was a pretty quick ride to get on the Cross Bronx if traffic wasn't too bad.

  So Yes Brother Garrett, McDonalds was all a big part of it. I'm sure you passed us by many times in the rig. I asked one retired member if he ever noticed us while we were buffing a job. His answer was typical of a South Bronx Fireman. He said: "Unless you were wearing a skirt, I probadly wouldn't have noticed you".

  Yes, McDonalds does belong in a picture like that. If that sign could only talk. What a story it would have to tell.

  Any guesses on where that picture was taken. I'm just guessing, the McDonalds in the area of lower Bruckner Blvd just off the JFK Bridge (former Tri Boro). Around 140th St.

 

[1261Truckie]

Hey Guys,

I find it very interesting that a photo essay about the Bronx starts off with shots from jobs in BROOKLYN....what's the matter, youse guys had to look to the "Borough of Fire" for action shots?

Oh don't mind me, only an old troublemaker stirring the pot. Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Very interesting photos that bring back memories regardless of where you hung your helmet. Thanks for the links.

You learned the job very quickly in those days, and those lessons stay with you a long time

Regards to all, take care

Jim Boyle (aka 1261truckie)

 

[nfd2004]

Many times a Chief and his aide would show up on a working fire. He would ask, "who do we have coming in here" ? Sometimes the annswer from the dispatcher would be, "Chief right now just you and Engine.....". "We don't have a Truck, but we'll try to get you one". With that, the chief and his aide would become part of the firefighting team. Many times these chiefs couldn't stand in the street and direct the operations. In cases like this, the Chief and his aide became the forcible entry team. Hard to believe today but that's the way it often was then. And maybe, a truck would get freed up and be able to take it in later. Not from a first or second due area, but from another division. The chiefs never knew who they had coming in.

  "Mack" and I discussed this type of thing on a recent visit to his house. In "macks" case, he rode the Coney Island Companies. Macks father was a Battalion Chief there.  Streets like Surf Ave, Mermaid Ave were regularly heard over my scanner at home for jobs. That Coney Island area was a very busy place. Mack tells me of one story where it was shift change at 1800 hours. One chief relieved the other. The one that worked the Day shift was covered in soot. He told the oncoming chief that it was a pretty busy day, and it could be a tough night. I'm sure it was. What would be a Second or Third alarm today, would then be maybe a good all hands. And there was no FAST CO coming in. If they got 3 and 2 to come in, they were doing pretty good.

  Of course I spent most of my time in the Bronx or Harlem at the time. Guys like "mack", "Johnd..", and a few others were in the streets of Brooklyn. It was basically the same story. Just try to get enough companies in on a good job was a nightmare for even the most seasoned dispatchers.

  Mack and I talked a few stories together. But its so hard to explain just how busy things were then. For those of us that were around for it, I guess you could say we were the lucky ones. But it still amazes me how these guys did it. They sometimes went from job to job. And those dispatchers certainly earned their pay. Phones ringing, bells coming in and the constant beeping of those ERS Boxes being activitated that had to be answered. And if nobody has told you yet, Great Job there guys. Just a little overdue on the pat on the back.