My younger Buff years

[nfd2004]

Busy days, which I doubt will ever be experienced again. I received a copy of 1st issue 2014 WNYF. In this issue runs and workers for 2013 are listed. I see that 82 engine was number 25 in all-hands with 74 fires. I thought back to July 1975 when 82 for that one month (blue and red entries) had 210 structural fires with 205 hours of structural work. My guess would be that at least 100 or so of these were all-hands or greater. The busiest engine, 275, had 119 all-hands for the year 2013. 82 would average around 1800 workers a year with 1600 hrs of work time, blue entries only. Also at that time 82 was "forced" to interchange every other night to either 295 or 297 engine, then, Sq.2 on the nights we didn't interchange would be first up for 82 from 1900 to 0100 hrs. Usually Sq. would catch a job early and then we were running 1st as we should have been every night. One can only imagine what those numbers would have been without interchange and Sq.

  Chief *******, thank you for that report. It is beyond any imagination today. How can a company be taken away from it's firehouse, not respond first due during some hours and still put in that much fire activity ? It seems almost impossible by todays standards. I guess about the only proof left, are some of the pictures or videos around that show the blocks of burned out buildings.

  Many of these huge burned out buildings went a piece at a time. Three or four fires this week. Three or four fires next week. The square with the "/" or "X" through it was used to show a building previously damaged by fire. That symbol, that grew out of the FDNY War Years, is still used today be many departments.

  And you mention Squad 2. I don't know how many know this, but this site owner, FDNY Lt "Tbendicks" father was on Squad 2 during those very busy years. He ended up retiring as a Captain within the FDNY. His story goes that "he enjoyed working Squad 2". But when the Squad companies as they were then, were closed, he was forced to be transferred. He had three choices. His pick was Engine 75 in the Bronx. In a very short time, the work load of fire activity increased in their surrounding area. Battalion 27 had been moved from Eng 82/Lad 31 to Eng 79/Lad 37s quarters. Ladder 59 had been moved from the "Tin House" on Boston Rd with Eng 85 to Eng 43s quarters on Sedgewick Ave. All to help deal with that workload increase. 

  The 1980s were upon us and now it was the West Bronx that was burning. Eng 75 was now one of the busiest engines. Some years... "they were the busiest". Apparently, then Firefighter Bendick had made the right choice as he told me, "he enjoyed being on a busy company".

  For a period of over 20 years, it was routine to have a fire or several fires in certain neighborhoods. As mentioned on here earlier, "The Red Caps" and new laws did make a big dent in the number of fires. But in the 80s, the West Bronx was still a tough place to be. Of course places like Harlem, Washington Heights in Manhattan and many parts of Brooklyn were still burning too.

  As I remember, as the 1990s/2000 came in, parts of Queens became the hot spot. That's when places like Eng 275, Eng 303/Lad 126, were seeing a workload increase. Later Ladder 133 was added with Eng 275.

  Today, we have a thread on here dedicated to the FDNY War Years Firefighters who pass away. Unfortunately, the pages are increasing. I never met them. Maybe I saw them and they saw me. Maybe we talked a little bit in the street or I just happened to see them outside the firehouse. But I read every post there. Each and Everyone of those names are a part of the "Greatest Generation of Firefighters" to ever live.

I got a message the other day from one of the site members I hope to meet soon. He is a Battalion Chief in a County Department in another state. He told me he had a very busy night shift. He also told me that he has no idea on how those guys fought so many fires during those War Years nights. "I don't know how they did it either". But I have NEVER seen the morale so high, in ANY Fire Dept., as I did during those years with those War Years Firefighters. Strange, but I guess most loved what they were doing.

 

 

[FDNYSTATENISLAND]

I enjoy reading these stories from the War Years, thank you all for posting. Back then, just like today, the FDNY used a variety of manufacturers to produce the rigs. Today, Seagrave produces our engines and trucks, Ferrara produces our aerials and Rescues, and KME produces our new engines. Back then, different manufacturers produced different rigs as well. In the late 70's-90's, ALF produced our engines(and some Tower Ladders?) Mack also produced engine and Mack also produced the Tower Ladders. Seagrave produced the aerials. The Rescue companies look like they were produced by Mack throughout the 70s, 80's and 90's as well? These rigs were built to last and seemed like they all for the most part, handled the high work load well.

Just interesting to see how different the rigs were back then compared to them today. The rigs were beat up as you can tell from many videos, and I'm guessing many of the members on this site's experience.

 

[FDNYSTATENISLAND]

Now I don't know who took these photos, some members here might know though. If any members took any of these shots, I am sorry I did not include credits.

ALF Engine 163:


Mack Engine 282:



Mack Rescue 1:




Another shot of Rescue(Different rig, I'm guessing 80's?)





Mack Tower Ladder 124 I'm guessing 90s)




Mack Tower Ladder 1I'm guessing 80s)



Seagrave Ladder 148: (80s & 90s)

 

[fdny1075k]

American LaFrance also made the 100' Tower Ladders (used by 14 Truck and 119 Truck I believe).

Prior to that, the 100' Tower Ladders were made by Sutphen.

Seagrave made straight sticks and tillers. There was also a straight stick Mack used by Ladder 30 as seen in this shot by nfd2004.

 

[FDNYSTATENISLAND]

Thanks 1075, what was the difference between the Mack Straight Stick and the Seagrave Aerial? The Mack looks like a smaller rig overall.

 

[68jk09]

Great FDNY Rig History photos thanks to those who took them & those who posted them.....some further info...the above shot of R*1 next to ENG*34 was in the late '80s when R*1 after their FH was destroyed in a Fire was in w/ENG*34 & LAD*21 I Covered there for awhile then ...the rig was a '79  Mack....all the Rescue's during the '70s thru to the recent years when Ferrara came in were Macks w/the exception of the '82 American La France w/a Saulsbury body that we had in R*2....the 2 Mack RMs were 30 & 132....the 2 Sutphens were 14 & 119 then after 14 got a new rig their Sutphen was kept in qtrs w/119 who had their original Sutphen & was the only Co allowed to use the other Sutphen as a spare due to the complexity of the Rig also the 2 were the only FDNY LADs w/pumps however as per agreement w/the Unions & the Job the pumps were only used to augment a supply line to the TL from an ENG... not to be used for handlines......the 2 ALF RMs were 14 & 163 they always remeinded me of a RM w/a Volkswagon hanging off the tip. 

 

[FDNYSTATENISLAND]

Thanks chief for clearing things up, very interesting stuff

 

[raybrag]

Chief JK:  You left out the '97 HME rescues and the 2002 E-1 Rescues, along with the '07 Pierce rescue. It's been a long while since they were Macks.

 

[auxlteng225]

Hi Chief, just one correction on pumps. The American Lafrance towers were the ones with the 1250 GPM pumps. Back in the eighties I was with Spring Valley FD and took a American Lafrance Water Chief to Dunmore, Pa. for heavy service. When I got there they had Ladder 14 American France in the bay. They were giving it a greater turning radius modification. Right after that Rockland Hook & Ladder in Spring Valley bought the same type of rig.  They were monsters and a bear to get around with. Had to laugh when I  read your description of a ladder with a Volkswagon on the end. That sure is a great way to put it. Re the 79 Mack rescue rigs. Also in the eighties I would on occasion ride with Rescue 3 in their 79 Mack and I can remember Captain Ryan telling us when the time came to replace it that he wanted no part of the new rigs with the cab forward chassis.  Those Macks were tough rigs. FYi Chief I am a past chief of Department of Spring Valley FD, Spring Valley, NY.  The busiest fire department in Rockland County, NY back in the eighties. My two years as Chief: 1987-88 Fires: 568 EM 474 total 1042 and 1988-89 Fires: 699 EM 353 total 1052. And we were all volunteer. Those were the days. I thank the good Lord for the training that I received at Engine 225 FDNY back in fifties and sixties.

 

[69 METS]

Chief JK:  You left out the '97 HME rescues and the 2002 E-1 Rescues, along with the '07 Pierce rescue. It's been a long while since they were Macks.

The HME / Saulsbury Rescues were 1996 models.

 

[68jk09]

Chief JK:  You left out the '97 HME rescues and the 2002 E-1 Rescues, along with the '07 Pierce rescue. It's been a long while since they were Macks.

OK Thanks .....I guess I should have given a cutoff date on my memory concerning the Rescue Rig's....my association w/SOC ended w/1992 when i went back to ROC.

 

[raybrag]

That's OK, Jack.  We've got to cut some slack to anyone who remembers Res1cue's Cadillac.  : :

 

[69 METS]

Hi Chief, just one correction on pumps. The American Lafrance towers were the ones with the 1250 GPM pumps.

The Sutphen Tower Ladders also had pumps. From Wikipedia: "The Fire Department of New York purchased two Sutphen 100+ tower ladder quints in 1981. They were the tallest tower ladders in the city until they were taken out of service."

Discharges can be seen in this photo: http://www.firenews.org/nonne/ny/fdny/FDNYL119-1980.jpg

 

[auxlteng225]

69mets Interesting. Looking at the picture the one of the left looks like a 4-1/2 suction cap and the one on the right looks like a 2-1-/2 gated poney inlet. Dont see any thing that looks like pressure gauges on the panel either. But, as the caption from wiki states, they were QUINTS, thus making them five featured rigs. As I stated on my post we can be positive on the American Lafrance rigs and probably Jack is most likely correct on the Sutphins. Also interesting that the city would buy two more quints after all the labor issues with the first two. Good catch my friend and thanks. 

 

[auxlteng225]

69mets: Went hunting on the net and found a few pictures of L119 Sutphen and yes indeed on the right officers side there was two discharges and another 4-1/2 inlet. They were probably no more fun to drive in the city than the later American Lafrance rigs. That rear overhang with the bucket had to be a drivers night mare.

 

[FDNYSTATENISLAND]

What were the opinions on the apparatus at the time? I heard that the brothers weren't too fond of the ALF engines and that they swore by the Macks. How about the Seagrave Aerials, I would imagine they were liked as well?

 

[811]

Back then, I heard the Sutphens needed the weight of the pump to properly balance (or ballast) the rig; just like heavy-duty cranes have such weights.

If FDNY wanted the rig without the pump, the option would have been to install a concrete block in its place.

It is a QUINT because it has pump, hose capacity, tank, portable ladders, and aerial device. A QUAD would be a rig with 4 of these: usually pump, hose capacity, tank, and portable ladders (but no aerial device).  Would a Sutphen without a pump be considered a Quad?  Was any such rig ever built?

 

[nfd2004]

69mets: Went hunting on the net and found a few pictures of L119 Sutphen and yes indeed on the right officers side there was two discharges and another 4-1/2 inlet. They were probably no more fun to drive in the city than the later American Lafrance rigs. That rear overhang with the bucket had to be a drivers night mare.

Back then as I remember it, Ladder Co 14 got one of each. They had the challenge of using both the Sutphen and later the Big American LaFrance driving through those Harlem streets of double parked cars.

I just put down the book called "When the Bronx burned". It is written by a retired member of Engine 85. He describes the job and those streets. The fires, the streets etc. and after reading that for about the third time, it is still hard to believe that those conditions actually existed. But it's true. They did exist and for those that were NOT a part of it, it's just hard to comprehend. And I can certainly understand that.

 

[guitarman314]

  TL163 had to navigate their ALF/LTI under EL pillars on Roosevelt Ave. :

 

[68jk09]

What were the opinions on the apparatus at the time? I heard that the brothers weren't too fond of the ALF engines and that they swore by the Macks. How about the Seagrave Aerials, I would imagine they were liked as well?

The '53 ..'56..'60..'62 '68..'69 ALF Tillers all were good however thru the years you could see the quality diminish but this is true w/many vehicles.....the '80s ALF Pumpers were not good......The '63 Seagrave Tillers were good but the '74 Seagrave Tillers were not ....due to the fact that the support for the Tiller compartment made it like a springboard...if you had an ALF Tiller & a Seagrave Tiller side by side you could see the lack of structural support on the Seagrave's Tiller area....Mack Pumpers were always excellent ..drove the only '69 ALF RM one tour & covered in 132 w/the Mack RM but never drove it so no opinion.... i was never assigned to a Co w/a Mack Tiller so i have no opinion on them....JMO