Bill I believe the event(s) that really bothered me the most when there was, repeating myself, Gasoline Gomez. Gomez for about 18 months would hit a building on Charlotte Street about every 10 days or so. It amazed me how bold and vicious this guy was. Same pattern every time. He would set a small rubbish fire first floor rear apartment in a vacant or partially vacant tenement around 1900 hours or so. The assignment on 2743 then was 82,85,45,31,59,B27,Sq2,R3,D9. We would give an 18, stretch the booster and put out this fire. The Battalion would transmit the 10-41 signal. Then around 2300 we would get a little fire again first floor rear apartment either the same building or nearby. Put it out and the Battalion would transmit the 10-41, again. We knew that then around 0300 or 0400 we would get 3 or 4 floors going usually rear of building so the tower couldn't be used. This was the same every 10 days or so for 18 months. The 10-41's had to be transmitted 100 times or more for this box with this guy. The city/department never acted on it. No marshals ever tried after the first or second 10-41 to wait on a roof or something to see the guy carrying the gas can to these buildings in this mostly now vacant area at 0300, why? We had numerous injuries, some severe, civilians and members working these fires over this time period. Again, finally God stepped in and Gomez screwed up and blew himself out a 3rd floor window, he survived serious injuries, arrested, beat the charge, but, never heard from again.I was a BC in the 10th Battalion. I can assure you that if a 10-41, just one, had been transmitted for Jackie Kennedy's building on 85th and 5th, the city "would have responded."
My younger Buff years
- Thread starter nfd2004
- Start date
Bill - the Red Cap program was initiated in the late 1970s, maybe 1978. Unfortunately at least 10 years too late for the neighborhoods that were incinerated. I remember Mayor Koch's pictures in all the papers (people read newspapers then) and Koch was taking credit for a program already started. I forget the name of the Chief Fire Marshal who pushed the program which was very effective - but too late. Years of a NYC arson epidemic had already passed, starting in the late 1960s. Incredible high volumes of fire had already taken place in S Bronx, Brownsville, E New York, Williamsburg, Harlem, Bed Sty, Alphabet City. But it was relatively high in other parts of city, too, but no one cared other than FDNY companies. I remember coming in for a night tour in Coney Island in 1971. Plumes of smoke already showing a busy afternoon for the day tour. The new W 8th firehouse was empty, which was typical. The 43 Bn returned to quarters and 9x6 chief, BC Harry Dammers, popped out of the rig with a gray shirt. Turned out to be shirt used to be white that morning. He was pumped up and said they had back-to-back-to-back jobs all day. 3rd alarm in progress picked up by relocating companies. But he cussed out inability to get a fire marshal to CI. CI got nothing. Engine 244 had been disbanded a few years earlier. Rescue 2 was so busy they only were assigned to CI boxes on the 3rd alarm and Rescue 5 would not be reactvated for another 10 years. That day, gangs were burning each other's CI turf. Every fire was suspicious. Dammers claimed with frustration you could see kids with bottles or cans of gas if you drove down Mermaid Ave. He requested fire marshals in morning but no one was available all day. They were too busy elsewhere. Fires continued on night tour. Every box was a 10-30. And no fire marshals. Coney Island was just another unimportant neighborhood quietly destroyed by fire and crime and still not close to the volume of fires fought in the South Bronx and Brownsville. As Chief ******** says, "it was the best of times and the worst of times."
The arson plague throughout the city during those years was clearly out of control.
I found this article that was actually published much later in 2014. But it does reflect on how things were and how it was that the residents themselves tried to put an end to the fires burning out their entire neighborhoods and putting everyone's lives in danger.
It mentions about the Fire Marshalls trailer but not where it was set up.
Mack and Chief *******, I certainly appreciate your comments.
I just wanted to pass on this article for everybody to see. Somewhat interesting reading.
But I'm sure the Real World Arson is told much better by those who were directly involved in it.
www.citylimits.org/2014/05/14/how-new-york-city-beat-arson/
I found this article that was actually published much later in 2014. But it does reflect on how things were and how it was that the residents themselves tried to put an end to the fires burning out their entire neighborhoods and putting everyone's lives in danger.
It mentions about the Fire Marshalls trailer but not where it was set up.
Mack and Chief *******, I certainly appreciate your comments.
I just wanted to pass on this article for everybody to see. Somewhat interesting reading.
But I'm sure the Real World Arson is told much better by those who were directly involved in it.
www.citylimits.org/2014/05/14/how-new-york-city-beat-arson/
Last edited:
In the 1970s there was a worker in Brooklyn, occupied MD at night where gasoline had been spread in the public stairway and ignited. Tenants had a good idea who the culprit was, and Chief wanted an immediate Fire Marshal response.
Marshals were given the available information, and replied they only would respond to a "high priority" job, such as a "house of worship" or other politically favored occupancy; and an occupied multiple dwelling at night was not one. No surprise how NYPD wound up with most of the arson jobs.
Marshals were given the available information, and replied they only would respond to a "high priority" job, such as a "house of worship" or other politically favored occupancy; and an occupied multiple dwelling at night was not one. No surprise how NYPD wound up with most of the arson jobs.
mack said:
Thank you "mack" and in talking with the "kid from da Bronx", aka "fdce54", the old fart he is, "does remember that Fire Marshalls trailer used as their office building being set up on the Grand Concourse and 161 St. Then later as the activity picked up further north and west, being set up on Third Ave and Fordham Rd".
"fdce54" had mentioned that civilians could go into that temporary FM Office and tell what they know about any arson fire etc. He had also mentioned that this was sometime around 1980 and by then, many blocks of the Bronx had already been burnt out.
No other place at the time had ever faced the arson challenges of the FDNY. But as things started to slow down for the FDNY, other cities in the tri state area such as Newark, Jersey City, Paterson, Yonkers, Bridgeport, Hartford and New Haven began to see a repeat of the FDNY War Years in their cities.
Following a huge outbreak of arson fires during that time in New Haven, Ct, that city formed a joint Arson Task Force of Fire Marshalls and Police Officers assigned to investigate suspicious fires. It was the first such joint group in Connecticut that worked together and it became a Role Model for other cities to follow.
It was a member here, "bjooss", a retired B/C from New Haven, Ct, whose father at the time was a Captain (?) in the New Haven FDs Fire Marshalls Office, who started that highly successful program.
Back in the '80s New Haven started the AWAP program - Advanced Warning Arson Prevention
The Arson Squad gathered data regarding crime activity, delinquent taxes, foreclosure ect. and formulated a list of likely arson targets. The police would pass these buildings frequently and move people along who didn't belong. The Companies would drive by when in the area to give a presence.
In the '90s the City started the " Livable City's Initiative". The Companies inspected their districts documenting derelict building, overgrown land, abandon autos ect. The info was passed forward and City agencies looked in to tax leins, criminal activity and such.
Low interest loans were made available to the owner for rehab. If they defaulted then the property was foreclosed on and the City took possession. The properties were offered for sale at a good price. If no takers they would tear down the building and offer the lots to the adjoining property owners at a good price to either build and get back on the tax role or provide rear access to create off street parking. If still no takers the City would create a small park or community garden.
I was a Company Officer at Eng. 6 at the time and Communications would call around 8am and give us a list and times to open hydrants for the demo companies. Easily 5 or 6 buildings a day citywide were torn down.
The buffs said all our work would disappear. Wrong!! We still had plenty of occupied work. All we were loosing was the buildings that were going to kill us.
It is agreed among everyone that the LCI program was the turning point in the decline of the City and a renewed quality of life for the occupants.
The Arson Squad gathered data regarding crime activity, delinquent taxes, foreclosure ect. and formulated a list of likely arson targets. The police would pass these buildings frequently and move people along who didn't belong. The Companies would drive by when in the area to give a presence.
In the '90s the City started the " Livable City's Initiative". The Companies inspected their districts documenting derelict building, overgrown land, abandon autos ect. The info was passed forward and City agencies looked in to tax leins, criminal activity and such.
Low interest loans were made available to the owner for rehab. If they defaulted then the property was foreclosed on and the City took possession. The properties were offered for sale at a good price. If no takers they would tear down the building and offer the lots to the adjoining property owners at a good price to either build and get back on the tax role or provide rear access to create off street parking. If still no takers the City would create a small park or community garden.
I was a Company Officer at Eng. 6 at the time and Communications would call around 8am and give us a list and times to open hydrants for the demo companies. Easily 5 or 6 buildings a day citywide were torn down.
The buffs said all our work would disappear. Wrong!! We still had plenty of occupied work. All we were loosing was the buildings that were going to kill us.
It is agreed among everyone that the LCI program was the turning point in the decline of the City and a renewed quality of life for the occupants.
With the increase of serious fire activity throughout NYC in the last week of December, 2017 and into January, 2018, many of us are reminded of those very busy FDNY War Years.
In the Bronx alone, (excluding the other four boros), from December 25, 2017 to the evening of January 2, 2018 (about 7 days), there have been:
15 - 10-75s
1 - 2nd Alarm
1 - 3rd Alarm
1 - 4th Alarm
1 - 5th Alarm
1 - 7th Alarm
We take you back to the World Series of 1977, game # 2. The game is being played at Yankee Stadium and "the Bronx is burning". The late sports announcer Howard Cosell shows the viewers during this nationally televised game, what is going on in the South Bronx. The entire country gets to see what we refer to these days as the FDNY War Years. If I remember correctly, this was a vacant school burning that went to a 4th alarm.
Do you remember this ?...... I know there's a few of us here that do.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnVH-BE9CUo
In the Bronx alone, (excluding the other four boros), from December 25, 2017 to the evening of January 2, 2018 (about 7 days), there have been:
15 - 10-75s
1 - 2nd Alarm
1 - 3rd Alarm
1 - 4th Alarm
1 - 5th Alarm
1 - 7th Alarm
We take you back to the World Series of 1977, game # 2. The game is being played at Yankee Stadium and "the Bronx is burning". The late sports announcer Howard Cosell shows the viewers during this nationally televised game, what is going on in the South Bronx. The entire country gets to see what we refer to these days as the FDNY War Years. If I remember correctly, this was a vacant school burning that went to a 4th alarm.
Do you remember this ?...... I know there's a few of us here that do.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnVH-BE9CUo
Last edited:
Bill - Bronx fire during the World Series, 1977 - Fire during World Series was a vacant school - former PS 3 - at 158th St. and Melrose Avenue in the Bronx.
By the way, the Dodgers won Game 2 by a score of 6-1 - but the Yankees upset the favored Dodgers to win the 1977 World Series in 6 games. Billy Martin was the Yankees manager. Tommy Lasorda managed the Dodgers. Reggie Jackson became "Mr October" by hitting 3 homers in Game 6 at the Stadium.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bD9uZQuLME
A new candy bar was introduced after the World Series and named for Jackson - the "Reggie Bar".
By the way, the Dodgers won Game 2 by a score of 6-1 - but the Yankees upset the favored Dodgers to win the 1977 World Series in 6 games. Billy Martin was the Yankees manager. Tommy Lasorda managed the Dodgers. Reggie Jackson became "Mr October" by hitting 3 homers in Game 6 at the Stadium.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bD9uZQuLME
A new candy bar was introduced after the World Series and named for Jackson - the "Reggie Bar".
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2017
- Messages
- 13
My name is Todd Sites and I have been a firemen for almost 41 years. I am not very good on the computer with comas periods and things like that so you have to forgive me. I had the privilege of buffing Engine 277 and Ladder 112 from 1997 until about 2002. A buddy and I decided in1997 to make a trip to NYC and check out some of the companys and hoping to get a invite to stay. We arrived about noon and checked out some spots in Flatbush and the East New York area. All the companys we stopped at where very kind and open hearted but still No invite to stay. It is starting to get pretty late and we where in some places you really did not want to be in after dark. We happen to see a ladder truck backing in to quarters and we both said lets check this place out, it looked like a single house because of only one bay door. Turned out it was double house and the only one in the city like that, anyway we knocked on the door which was actually part of bay door which i had never seen before. The Firemen that answered the door was very polite and ask how he could help we said we where from otta town and if we could look around. I Still can remember to this day the words he said. Oh so you guys are here to ride with us we said no but we are looking for a place to stay and ride. Exact words go out get your shit your staying with us. So that was the begging of being apart of 277 and 112. Did not want to give out names or anything like that not sure if I could give out the names. But if anybody would like to email or anything like that please feel free to do so
mack said:
In another thread here, member "Ala117" posted this audio. Thank you and I'd like to add that audio to here and try to show just how busy those years were.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=8N1mGAOLra0
There are other audios as well posted in the quote above.
In addition to this fire activity there was huge piles of rubbish along the streets. The street activity was on going almost nightly between the blasting music, cars racing all over the place, and very often the sound of rapid gunfire. With water flowing down the streets like rivers from all the open hydrants. Some hydrants so vandalized they could not be used.
While the rigs were in quarters no matter what time of day or night, usually a couple of members would be seen standing out in front talking. You could hear the bells in rapid succession tapping out another box. The moral in the fire department was extremely high and the term BROTHERHOOD really meant something.
And those Fire Dispatchers, with NO computer aided dispatching were nothing short of being what some might refer to as; "Miracle Workers".
Often these firefighters were the targets of bricks and full garbage cans thrown from roof tops as they pulled into the street. Sometimes even bullets were fired at them. Buildings were often set on fire with booby traps to injure firefighters as they went in. There were holes cut in floors covered with a piece of material hoping that they would fall into a lower level. Piano wire was stretched across doorways hoping that firefighters wouldn't see it and injury would result. Balloons would be filled with gasoline ready to explode when heated and spread the fire.
There were also stabbings, shootings, drug overdoses, on a daily basis right in the streets.
It seemed like there was just no place to hide once you were there.
I can fully understand how difficult it must be for someone to try and understand what went on throughout many parts of NYC if they weren't there to see it for themselves.
But I can sure testify to you that ANY Retired FDNY War Years Firefighter that tells you a few stories of how it was then - they are NOT lying. You are hearing it straight from a guy who was there and lived it. It wasn't just a busy couple of days or maybe one very busy year. It was every day and night for a decade or more.
The amount of fire activity was non stop. I told one Retired FDNY War Years member just the other day. "As a buff, when I left to go home, it was like they opened the gates and let me out".
Last edited:
mack said:
Besides the Tactical Control Units that covered the busiest areas of the city during the time of the most fire activity, there were also "Tactical Dispatchers" that worked in the Communications Offices of the Bronx and Brooklyn during those busy hours of fire activity. I believe it started out as ONE Tactical Dispatcher in each C.O. but increased to TWO shortly after.
Many of us who were buffs and the guys that were on the job, as well as those fire dispatchers, STILL talk about those days today. There were no time outs and "it was just totally out of control".
nfd2004 said:
I did not know there were "Tactical Dispatchers" too. It does fit in with the extra TCUs in the field during peak response hours.
FDNY tried many things to handle the tremendous increase of alarms and fires during the 1960s-1970s "War Years". Some of these innovations were: second sections in very busy engines, ladders, battalions; squads issued pumpers in place of vans; TCUs; Adaptive Response system reduced responses to 2 & 1; ERS boxes replaced regular fire alarm boxes with reduced response; DRBs to reduce battalion responses; temporary firehouses (Tin Houses); new divisions and battalions; and then new companies. Nothing solved the skyrocketing volume of fires. NYC then faced a fiscal crisis in the 1970s. Fire companies were eliminated, firefighters laid off and neighborhoods in the city disappeared.
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2007
- Messages
- 1,445
During the "Adaptive Response" times, some truck companies rode with 7 guys and 2 of them were assigned as the "above fire team" taking the place of the 2nd due truck.
Tactical Control Units: TCUs worked 37 1/2 hrs; report for duty at 1430 hrs at a firehouse in an outlying area; 30 minutes to drive w/assigned apparatus to quarters they operate from; in service as a conventional engine or truck until 0030 hrs; 30 minutes to drive back to firehouse where their apparatus is stored; work 3 shifts and then 85 hrs off; 5% night differential for all hrs; all members volunteers and interviewed and selected for their firefighting experience, attitude, appearance, background and knowledge; an officer and 7 firefighters in TCU trucks; an officer and 6 firefighters in TCU engines; all engine and ladder companies in adaptive response areas have rosters of 31 firefighters and staffed with a minimum of 6 firefighters at all times; increased staffing to match 2 engine and 1 truck adaptive response; all non-firefighting details would be covered from an administrative quota of firefighters to maintain minimum unit manning.
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2007
- Messages
- 1,445
50 years ago, when I turned 18, I went to the quarters of E-280 (a place I had hung out since I was a little kid), introduced myself to Lt. Bennie Poholsky, the FDNY Fire Auxiliary Training Officer (he replaced Lt. Bill Mulligan) and joined the F.D.N.Y. Fire Auxiliary Corps. After attending a training class a night for 6 or 8 weeks (most at 280 with one at 257) and a Saturday session at the Brooklyn Terminal Market (complete with a CD pumper, hose, water and tools), I was assigned to E-280. Equipped with a hand-me-down helmet (found in 280's basement), a canvas turnout coat (bought from the guy on Dumont & Rockaway who modified and sold Midwestern coats) and a pair of hand-me down boots (from 132's basement), I was ready and rarin' to go.
A few months later, when 280 had a CD engine for a spare and there was no room to ride with them, I crossed the floor (actually went through the hole in the wall) and rode with 132. It was what we called "Amateur Night" (groups 23 to 3 were working and that meant we had a covering officer because the regular officers went not assigned). That night it was easy to convince the covering Lt. that I was assigned to the truck and the guys had no problem with me riding with them. One of them lent me a 132 insert. I formally transferred to 132 after that and continued to ride with the truck until I left the Auxiliaries in 1975.
That was a great house with some great guys. Fire duty was steadily increasing in our area, relocations to places like 120 and 111 brought more work and the Kitchen provided an education.
The lessons I learned during those years have stayed with me for life and have provided an endless amount of memories and stories. Those were indeed the good old days.
A few months later, when 280 had a CD engine for a spare and there was no room to ride with them, I crossed the floor (actually went through the hole in the wall) and rode with 132. It was what we called "Amateur Night" (groups 23 to 3 were working and that meant we had a covering officer because the regular officers went not assigned). That night it was easy to convince the covering Lt. that I was assigned to the truck and the guys had no problem with me riding with them. One of them lent me a 132 insert. I formally transferred to 132 after that and continued to ride with the truck until I left the Auxiliaries in 1975.
That was a great house with some great guys. Fire duty was steadily increasing in our area, relocations to places like 120 and 111 brought more work and the Kitchen provided an education.
The lessons I learned during those years have stayed with me for life and have provided an endless amount of memories and stories. Those were indeed the good old days.
Amen to that Jim. I received my training at E 280 also but in early 1964. Rode with E 248 and B 41 until 1973. Fantastic memories which I frequently pass on to younger firefighters. My first gear was Civil Defense stuff: awful yellow plastic helmet, yellow coat, and yellow boots. I eventually bought a FDNY turnout coat when the quartermaster was on the second floor of Pier A. Obtained a leather helmet when one of the chiefs in B 41 left it behind when he retired. I painted it yellow and later black when I was a volunteer in Fairfield, CT. Still have it. I still respond to calls 54 years later but let the kids do the interior work.
Several FDNY Auxiliary Firefighters (as well as members of the Fire Patrol) went on to become career firefighters throughout various cities.
As I remember with the budget crisis looming over New York City and word of closing dozens of fire companies throughout the city, it was decided that the FDNY Auxiliary Firefighter program be abandoned. But what those Auxiliary Firefighters had learned during those very busy years would certainly pay off for a few.
Three of the individuals that I know became firefighters in Bridgeport, Ct, as that city, like some many others, particularly in the northeast, began to see their own very busy War Years as neighborhoods burned out.
One had been an Auxiliary in Queens, another in Harlem, and another in the South Bronx. All very busy companies seeing their share of heavy fire duty. For these guys they were very well prepared for what was to come and they could often even predict the next areas of the city to burn. They all knew their stuff. All have since retired, including one who retired as B/C.
All would readily admit that it was those busy FDNY years where they got to learn so much.
Of course I know "johnd248" personally as we both served as volunteer firefighters years ago together. I recently met up with John and I got to tell you, no matter what he says, "I still think he could throw on some gear and an air pack, then drag a couple of lengths up to those upper floor jobs".
Thank you Charlie, aka "1261Truckie", as well. I appreciate hearing your story. I guess there's a big part of all of us that as young guys interested in the FDNY, we all grew up during the right time. We got to see for ourselves the Greatest Fire Dept in the World, during their Busiest years, do what they do best.
I guess being old does have some advantages besides our Senior Citizens Discount at Dunken Donuts. We are NOT alone in how we feel either.
As I remember with the budget crisis looming over New York City and word of closing dozens of fire companies throughout the city, it was decided that the FDNY Auxiliary Firefighter program be abandoned. But what those Auxiliary Firefighters had learned during those very busy years would certainly pay off for a few.
Three of the individuals that I know became firefighters in Bridgeport, Ct, as that city, like some many others, particularly in the northeast, began to see their own very busy War Years as neighborhoods burned out.
One had been an Auxiliary in Queens, another in Harlem, and another in the South Bronx. All very busy companies seeing their share of heavy fire duty. For these guys they were very well prepared for what was to come and they could often even predict the next areas of the city to burn. They all knew their stuff. All have since retired, including one who retired as B/C.
All would readily admit that it was those busy FDNY years where they got to learn so much.
Of course I know "johnd248" personally as we both served as volunteer firefighters years ago together. I recently met up with John and I got to tell you, no matter what he says, "I still think he could throw on some gear and an air pack, then drag a couple of lengths up to those upper floor jobs".
Thank you Charlie, aka "1261Truckie", as well. I appreciate hearing your story. I guess there's a big part of all of us that as young guys interested in the FDNY, we all grew up during the right time. We got to see for ourselves the Greatest Fire Dept in the World, during their Busiest years, do what they do best.
I guess being old does have some advantages besides our Senior Citizens Discount at Dunken Donuts. We are NOT alone in how we feel either.
FDNY had a robust Auxiliary firefighting program that was initiated during World War II and then continued even broader during the Cold War era into the FDNY "War Years". Auxiliaries were trained in firefighting skills to supplement fire units depleted by wartime service of department members. Political leaders watched what happened in London during the war and were afraid that NYC might see similar attacks. FDNY actually sent a chief and members to London during the air war to study the London Fire Brigade and to help. Following WW II and the Korean War, there was national concern about Cold War firefighting requirements and there were massive drives to recruit and train fire auxiliaries IN NYC. There was significant federal funding for CD fire apparatus and many WLF CD pumpers were purchased in the 1950s which remained in service for many years. Fire auxiliary members wore issued red helmets and black rubber coats. Auxiliaries staffed the CD apparatus or rode with FDNY units. There is an old WNYF article from the 1950s or 1960s which covered a large scale FDNY auxiliary pumper assistance trip to Danbury CT to help with flooding following a storm. There were still boxes of red helmets left in some firehouse cellars well into the 1960s. During the War Years, auxiliary members wore yellow helmets and assisted FDNY members with many duties riding as an extra member on apparatus. As Bill said, many became members of FDNY, Fire Patrol, dispatchers, NYPD, members of other departments and volunteer firefighters in their communities. I also read that the NY Fire Patrol also played a closer role assisting FDNY during World War II. I believe they received fire suppression equipment and established a special reporting relationship to the FDNY fire commissioner during the war when FDNY companies were riding shorthanded. FDNY established manpower squads during these periods of time, too.