My younger Buff years
- Thread starter nfd2004
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This documentary missed, or glossed over, some very important facets of why certain parts of the city burned so extensively.
First of all, the fires really began in the early 1960s. An analysis of the FDNY runs and workers year by year beginning in 1960 shows companies in the affected areas almost doubling their workload annually.
Not addressed also were three key contributors: rent control, welfare laws, and the city fiscal situation.
My family moved from the Melrose section of the Bronx to Bedford Park in 1941. They rented a nice apartment in a recently built five story walk up near The Botanical Gardens for $39 a month. When they moved out 27 years later they were paying $62 a month. My family income had increased at least 10 fold over that time.
Rent control was implemented in several cities during World War II to protect the families of soldiers who were away fighting. (All but New York City repealed those laws after the war.) Through the 1950?s rent in NYC apartments could be raised only for some capital improvement like a new stove or refrigerator. By 1960, the costs of fuel, maintenance, labor, etc., for these buildings were jumping up every year. Landlords, caught in the crunch, began to sell, abandon, or burn to get out from under. City government, by refusing to repeal rent control, brought this crisis upon its housing market. As the 1960s dawned, I watched my once beautiful building slip into disrepair. When my kid sister refused to go out at night to get the Daily News for my father (unsafe streets) we were gone to Westchester.
The city of New York also passed Welfare Laws in the early 1960s that begged to be abused. People burned out of their apartments were provided free temporary housing and went to the top of the eligibility list for NYCHA low rent units (aka ?The Projects?). Little wonder what happened next. I saw it myself, buffing in East Harlem and in the South Bronx, people standing on the sidewalk, suitcases in hand while their apartment burned upstairs, waiting for the City agent to escort them to their new digs. These laws were repealed in 1977. An analysis of the FDNY?s workload shows a precipitous drop in fires each year thereafter. I do not have the numbers in front of me but I believe it was as much as 50% by 1980. Not a coincidence.
New York City in the 1950s was a pinnacle of Western society. Low crime, clean streets, beautiful parks, and cradle to grave free stuff (health care, education, etc.) Unfortunately, the short sighted politicians of the day spent us into near oblivion. When the crisis came there was no money left. Where to cut? ... the old saw...?firemen first?.
I applaude those people in the documentary who have stuck around to rebuild my hometown. They suffered immeasurably in their childhood, unnecessarily. But in many cases it was their own neighbors who were contributing to the destruction set up initially by bad City policies.
First of all, the fires really began in the early 1960s. An analysis of the FDNY runs and workers year by year beginning in 1960 shows companies in the affected areas almost doubling their workload annually.
Not addressed also were three key contributors: rent control, welfare laws, and the city fiscal situation.
My family moved from the Melrose section of the Bronx to Bedford Park in 1941. They rented a nice apartment in a recently built five story walk up near The Botanical Gardens for $39 a month. When they moved out 27 years later they were paying $62 a month. My family income had increased at least 10 fold over that time.
Rent control was implemented in several cities during World War II to protect the families of soldiers who were away fighting. (All but New York City repealed those laws after the war.) Through the 1950?s rent in NYC apartments could be raised only for some capital improvement like a new stove or refrigerator. By 1960, the costs of fuel, maintenance, labor, etc., for these buildings were jumping up every year. Landlords, caught in the crunch, began to sell, abandon, or burn to get out from under. City government, by refusing to repeal rent control, brought this crisis upon its housing market. As the 1960s dawned, I watched my once beautiful building slip into disrepair. When my kid sister refused to go out at night to get the Daily News for my father (unsafe streets) we were gone to Westchester.
The city of New York also passed Welfare Laws in the early 1960s that begged to be abused. People burned out of their apartments were provided free temporary housing and went to the top of the eligibility list for NYCHA low rent units (aka ?The Projects?). Little wonder what happened next. I saw it myself, buffing in East Harlem and in the South Bronx, people standing on the sidewalk, suitcases in hand while their apartment burned upstairs, waiting for the City agent to escort them to their new digs. These laws were repealed in 1977. An analysis of the FDNY?s workload shows a precipitous drop in fires each year thereafter. I do not have the numbers in front of me but I believe it was as much as 50% by 1980. Not a coincidence.
New York City in the 1950s was a pinnacle of Western society. Low crime, clean streets, beautiful parks, and cradle to grave free stuff (health care, education, etc.) Unfortunately, the short sighted politicians of the day spent us into near oblivion. When the crisis came there was no money left. Where to cut? ... the old saw...?firemen first?.
I applaude those people in the documentary who have stuck around to rebuild my hometown. They suffered immeasurably in their childhood, unnecessarily. But in many cases it was their own neighbors who were contributing to the destruction set up initially by bad City policies.
Thank you "3511". I was in the process of writing this myself and I noticed your story was posted.
During those busy years, it was pretty much known that if your apartment had a fire and you were burned out, you would be put at the top of the list for new housing and given $3,000 (?) to replace your furniture, etc.
I don't think the program mentioned that.
Often, as I understand it, before a fire, the occupants were reported to be moving all their good furniture, TV, etc out and replacing it with older furniture and then there is a fire in that apartment.
Then they collect their $3,000 and get a new place to live in.
We can only assume how that fire started.
During those busy years, it was pretty much known that if your apartment had a fire and you were burned out, you would be put at the top of the list for new housing and given $3,000 (?) to replace your furniture, etc.
I don't think the program mentioned that.
Often, as I understand it, before a fire, the occupants were reported to be moving all their good furniture, TV, etc out and replacing it with older furniture and then there is a fire in that apartment.
Then they collect their $3,000 and get a new place to live in.
We can only assume how that fire started.
Bill I think both you and 3511 hit it right on the head, the why it happened and why it was allowed. Unfortunately I had a chance to ask someone who knew the answers, but didn't. I was a covering deputy in 1980. I was doing a day tour in the 3rd division. A firefighter I had worked with was in Sloan Kettering Hosp. I went to visit him that day. He was in a semi-private room in the hospital. Sharing the room with him was none other than John T. O'Hagan who wore two hats during the busy days, Fire Commissioner and Chief of Department. In the room that day was O'Hagan's wife. I wanted to ask him the question why was it allowed," but because of his wife being there and his health problems I couldn't bring myself to do it. Watching that film the other night there was a one second shot of a firefighter. The firefighter was Willy Doyle, E82. Willy had spent many years in 82, saw a ton of work. He was injured at a fire and went on light duty. Those days we were paid by check. Willy had finished his LD job and came to qtrs. to wait for his check. He asked the guys to give him a shake when the checks came in, was going to lay down for a while. When the checks came in and the guys went to wake him Willy had passed away; a heart attack. The war years took a terrible toll on the people, the city and the brothers. Shame on those who allowed it and most of all who profited from it.
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******* & lucky ....2 FDNY Brothers who saw the War Years even though in different Boros ....same heat & smoke ....i agree with both of them on their perspectives ....I too think the FDNY War Years at least in 108 & surrounding areas ran roughly from 1965 to 1977 as evidenced by 108s numbers (as well as my own experience there)....in the '60s there were very few Marshal's on Duty each tour....there were 2 cars 50 & 51 ......50 was for BKLYN & QNS & was quartered on the 3rd fl of LAD*132....it was often heard on the Dept radio (same frequency for BK & QN back then) "Queens to Car 50" usually repeated 2 or 3 times then the Dispatcher would say "no answer" & sign off with his number....as lucky said after the Boro Call on Knickerbocker Ave (which came shortly after the July '77 Blackout ) the Red Caps were established to quell the Firestorm in Bushwick which they did....i knew several of them .....they worked in teams & not only made arson arrests but arrested any miscreant for anything including but not limited to drugs ...prostitution or various other crimes.....they were effective & the tide did change in Bushwick & surrounding areas.....they also subsequently operated in South Jamaica on a smaller scale but had the same zealous record of enforcement of all type crimes along with arson.....the NYPD was overwhelmed themselves so there was no resentment of the encroachment back then....they did also later operate in the BX but i am not familiar with when & what there impact was there.
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I watched the film and thought it gave an interesting insight since i had only known the FD side of the equation. I thought it was interesting that the citizen felt it was necessary to blast Ronald Reagan and tell him to go back to Hollywood! He told her the solution was in the neighborhood, not government. The next clip was all about community action!
On another note, I have never understood why they close fire companies. Relocate maybe but never close. But what do I know, I live in the south! (where everybody is moving) ;D
On another note, I have never understood why they close fire companies. Relocate maybe but never close. But what do I know, I live in the south! (where everybody is moving) ;D
As I read some of the stories throughout various topics here, I think back to "My Younger Buff Years" of chasing fire trucks throughout some of the tougher NYC streets. In the cities toughest places like the South Bronx, the West Bronx, Harlem, in Brooklyn's Bed Sty, Bushwick, East NY/Brownsville, Williamsburg, and once in awhile, Coney Island or Manhattans Lower East Side.
I have to believe that many times over, I watched many of the guys on here work at doing what they did best.
Guys like:
"jbendick", "68jk09", "Johnny Gage", "*******", "turk132", "69mets", "8060rock", "Bob Dobaline" and I'm sure so many others.
Plus other guys who have posted their stories or that I have gotten to know like:
"guitarman314", "mikeindabronx", "fdce54", "JOR176", "1261Truckie", "memory master", "mack", "raybrag", "Atlas", "3511", and more. Just like I did when I was watching the FDNYs Bravest do what they do best.
I'm sure that somewhere out there in those "mean streets", 20, 30, or 40 years ago we have crossed paths at some point but didn't realize it.
I am very glad that the many stories of the FDNY and those who worked it or buffed it during those long ago days have been able to tell their own personnel stories or bring back memories to a group of guys that all have the same interest of those long ago days of the FDNY, and those who were a part of it.
One well known and respected retired FDNY Dispatcher recently sent me this:
QUOTE:
"We have to stick together. We all love the fire service and the Brotherhood that goes hand and hand."
I think that statement puts it all together and says it all.
I have to believe that many times over, I watched many of the guys on here work at doing what they did best.
Guys like:
"jbendick", "68jk09", "Johnny Gage", "*******", "turk132", "69mets", "8060rock", "Bob Dobaline" and I'm sure so many others.
Plus other guys who have posted their stories or that I have gotten to know like:
"guitarman314", "mikeindabronx", "fdce54", "JOR176", "1261Truckie", "memory master", "mack", "raybrag", "Atlas", "3511", and more. Just like I did when I was watching the FDNYs Bravest do what they do best.
I'm sure that somewhere out there in those "mean streets", 20, 30, or 40 years ago we have crossed paths at some point but didn't realize it.
I am very glad that the many stories of the FDNY and those who worked it or buffed it during those long ago days have been able to tell their own personnel stories or bring back memories to a group of guys that all have the same interest of those long ago days of the FDNY, and those who were a part of it.
One well known and respected retired FDNY Dispatcher recently sent me this:
QUOTE:
"We have to stick together. We all love the fire service and the Brotherhood that goes hand and hand."
I think that statement puts it all together and says it all.
nfd2004 said:
Last month I celebrated my 71st Birthday. These days it is hard to believe that it was 50 years ago that myself and my good buddy, Timmy Oldroyd, had walked into that firehouse on Intervale Ave in the Bronx about 3 am the morning of April 6, 1970. We were invited to sit down and join the members of Engine 82, Ladder 31 and Battalion 27 for the evening meal. It was their first chance to take a break from the fires and false alarms they had been responding to.
Timmy and I both turned 21 on that April 5th day back 50 years ago. We had told the members that we were both volunteer firefighters in Fairfield, Ct. But our goals were to become career firefighters wherever we could.
Timmy, who is no longer with us, became a firefighter in Fairfield while I got the job about 75 miles away in Norwich. As the years went by and we would meet up, we would talk about that night and how great we got treated and that we got to ride with those guys after chow when they went to a fourth alarm on Southern Blvd.
For the next 30-40 years or so, I would make regular trips down to some of the busiest New York City neighborhoods in the world for fires. For our newer NYCFIRE members who might be interested, the previous 120 pages are not only my stories, but the stories of many others who were in some way, a part of it.
Very Happy Belated Birthday, Bill, and many, many more in great health and happiness. You're a good man and all that you do for The Site, the Chelsea Veterans Day Ceremony and the Fr. Judge Walk is very deeply appreciated.
I was going to say that I'm surprised that New York City, let alone the FDNY, had even been established when you were 21 years old, but I won't go there - for now.
Stay well, my friend.
I was going to say that I'm surprised that New York City, let alone the FDNY, had even been established when you were 21 years old, but I won't go there - for now.
Stay well, my friend.
For those who may not have heard about this series, you may want to subscribe to this. Members of the FDNY are interviewed and tell some of their stories. In fact, some of the retired FDNY members we have with us are talked about. It's called "Getting Salty".
Recently, our own "69METS", aka Garrett Lindgren, was mentioned by Retired FDNY Captain Mike Everett. Cpt Everett worked FDNYs Ladder 33, Ladder 44 and Squad 41.
Here is the introduction video called: "FDNY - the Best Job in the World".
www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuojjfulwCs
Recently, our own "69METS", aka Garrett Lindgren, was mentioned by Retired FDNY Captain Mike Everett. Cpt Everett worked FDNYs Ladder 33, Ladder 44 and Squad 41.
Here is the introduction video called: "FDNY - the Best Job in the World".
www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuojjfulwCs
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nfd2004 said:
In Getting Salty - Episode # 10 "FDNY Res4cue Dennis Gorden", a couple more members that we are familiar with is mentioned.
Around the 20 minute mark, member Jack Kleehaas, aka "68jk09", is seen in a photo from his promotion to Lt. He is also mentioned by name in that video.
Around the 22 minute mark, the name Dan Potter, aka "Johnny Gage", is referred to as being a good guy. But many of us already knew that anyway.
Throwback Saturday - "Badass and Bald"
Dr Evil - Austin Powers nemesis
Ernst Stavro Blofeld - James Bond nemesis - Thunderball/You Only Live Twice
Sinead O'Connor a.k.a. Shuhada' Davitt ?? - Irish Singer
Lex Luthor - Superman nemesis
Benito Mussolini - Facist WWII Dictator
Tough Willy - NFD (Ret) and NYC/Firenet Moderator
Dr Evil - Austin Powers nemesis
Ernst Stavro Blofeld - James Bond nemesis - Thunderball/You Only Live Twice
Sinead O'Connor a.k.a. Shuhada' Davitt ?? - Irish Singer
Lex Luthor - Superman nemesis
Benito Mussolini - Facist WWII Dictator
Tough Willy - NFD (Ret) and NYC/Firenet Moderator
Thank you Joe, aka "mack".
I finally realized why nobody messed with me in my younger days back then in those South Bronx, Harlem, Bed Sty, Bushwick, and Brownsville streets during those very busy FDNY War Years.
This picture explains it perfectly.
postimg.cc
I finally realized why nobody messed with me in my younger days back then in those South Bronx, Harlem, Bed Sty, Bushwick, and Brownsville streets during those very busy FDNY War Years.
This picture explains it perfectly.
Tough Willy â Postimages
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