NYC fire protection

[mack]

NYC also continues to grow - over 300,000 reported population growth since 2000. With expanding EMS calls, increasing odor of gas from aging gas lines, increasing manhole fires, increasing emergency calls - as well as alarms for fire - it does not seem that there are fire companies that are unnecessary.

 

[Atlas]

Although not a fire company closure issue, NYC is going to have to address the aging of firehouses as most are. or will be, over 100 years old - many well over 120 years or 130 years. I am not advocating replacing the many classic firehouses that still serve effectively - but it will be costly to effectively refurbish old quarters built for horse-drawn steamers and much smaller early-day motorized apparatus. Firefighter health will, and should, become an increasingly important reason to look at firehouses designed with kitchens and bunk rooms located above apparatus that goes in and out of quarters 20 times a day.

NYC has to create hot & cold zone within the fire stations to help reduce the spread of cancer. New stations will accomplish that requirement.

 

[raybrag]

NYC also continues to grow - over 300,000 reported population growth since 2000. With expanding EMS calls, increasing odor of gas from aging gas lines, increasing manhole fires, increasing emergency calls - as well as alarms for fire - it does not seem that there are fire companies that are unnecessary.

Entropychaser said on the first page that NYC has LOST 300,000 people in the last 5 years. Of course, both his statement and yours, Mack could be correct since they cover different periods, but what is the long-term trend for population of the city? According to macrotrends.net (which HAS to be right, 'cause after all I found it on the internet ), the long term trend is for growth:

 

[EdMc]

One thing to remember in this whole discussion, yes probably thousands of people have moved out of the city in resent years. Yes some people have moved into those houses and apartments. Just remember that during the day millions of people come into the whole city to work and visit, sometimes into late night or into the wee hours of the morning. So with that said it would be extremely foolish to reduce companies. You still have companies in like Midtown doing something like 6000 per year.

 

[entropychaser]

According to the United States Census Bureau:

Population New York City- April 1, 2020 8,804,190
Estimated July 1, 2021 8,467,513

New York City Public Schools has lost an estimated 50,000 students
Also, New York State leads the nation (by far) in loss of manufacturing jobs
The US Census Bureau has admitted that they overcounted New York in the 2020 census

 

[entropychaser]

Ken Griffin, the richest person in Illinois, is taking his $51 Billion hedge fund and 1000 employees and moving to Miami. The stated reason: crime, high taxes, and onerous business regulations. Sound familiar?

 

[entropychaser]

Unlike 150 years ago, you don't have to be within 1,000 feet of the New York Stock Exchange.

 

[ifd100]

Well stated Lebby. NYC is like no other city in the country when it comes to providing police, fire and EMS protection. The complexity and variables are not of the scope collectively found any where else. E.g, population density, traffic on local streets, building construction, geography, separated coverage areas (rivers and Bridges). Amount of subways, amount of hi rises, and the list goes on.

correct there is nothing in size or population of the city of New York

 

[Bulldog]

Also, New York State leads the nation (by far) in loss of manufacturing jobs

Imagine That! No company in their right mind would want to operate in New York State with the horrendous taxes they are charged to there!

 

[mack]

According to the United States Census Bureau:

Population New York City- April 1, 2020 8,804,190
Estimated July 1, 2021 8,467,513

New York City Public Schools has lost an estimated 50,000 students
Also, New York State leads the nation (by far) in loss of manufacturing jobs
The US Census Bureau has admitted that they overcounted New York in the 2020 census

I used the population growth of NYC from 2000 to 2020. During that time, while many cities like Baltimore and Detroit declined significantly, NYC grew tremendously - from 8M to somewhere between 8.4M to 8.8M. I believe the significance is that while some cities might be able to justify reducing fire and police forces because of significant population decline, NYC grew by maybe 400,00 to 800,00 inhabitants - without increasing fire companies or building new firehouses. That's like adding the city of Atlanta, or maybe 2 Atlantas, without adding an engine or a truck or firefighters. Let's not debate COVID and crime related departures of New Yorkers from the city the past few years. That's not the point. NYC has grown the past 2 decades and FDNY has not. That's why so many engine companies are doing 6000 runs. More people, more FDNY work. A lot more. So maybe there should be talk about more fire companies, not less. I think the union tries to make that point but doesn't seem to effectively get support and awareness because people who want to reduced fire budgets argue the decline in the number of fires, not overall work and lives saved.

Wikipedia NYC chart:

 

[Capttomo]

And despite the tax base and money leaving NY state at a steady rate , they continue in their socialist spending policies. Case in point - regardless of your stand on abortion commandant Holchul publicly announced that NY State would pay for transport, and housing to NY state for those that can’t get abortions in their home states. This has nothing to do with abortion. It has everything to do with NY State politicians spending New Yorker’s money to push their agenda even beyond NY borders, when they run out of money they raise taxes and it’s a wash- rinse - repeat cycle that is unsustainable. Sad. Glad I left and am now in an income tax free state with reasonable and fiscally sound policies.

 

[Atlas]

NYC can no longer expand except upward. With that in mind there is hardly any place to build a new station. NYC can get developers to build fire stations in the future developments or buildings, but incoming residents would complain of the noise everytime there was a response.

Roosevelt Island is one of the best examples. NY State built the fire station to house firefighting units, not SOC support units. NYC decided that new companies were not needed for that growing community. Eng 260 could handle that community. Next NYC closed Eng 261, who was second due on to the island which left Eng 260 with a larger 1st due area. If Eng 260 is out on a another run, Eng 262 has to respond 1st due with Eng 258 2nd due. Third due would either be Eng 259 or 263. And what happens if they are out?

Cities & towns who are annexing land are getting additional stations, or in some cases fire stations are being relocated to help provide proper coverage. Most of FDNY stations go back over a hundred years. New developments bring additional people and traffic into an area but in most cases that area has already been provided proper coverage. Yes, there are areas of NYC that can use help, but like the war years fire companies will still volunteer after a job to go to another worker. Its in the blood!

 

[ta176]

To put some things in perspective, here in Huntington they built 550 condo units for people over 55, which means probably no young kids to populate the schools. So with the increase of tax revenue my town taxes still went up $200 a year. And back to NYC, some people are still working from home in the Safety of their own house and no rides on public transportation and no 2 hour commute. Companies can down size office space so it's a win for the workers and the Co..

 

[twoteamtease]

Add a Ladder 57 and put it in with Engine 91.

 

[FDNY Response Videos]

There is a need for an additional engine on Manhattan's Westside between Ladder 25 & Engine 76. Re-establish Engine 56 because of the construction of all the highrise apartment buildings north of 59 Street near the Hudson River.

You’ve already got Engine 74 on west 83rd street between L25&E76.

 

[Signal73]

You’ve already got Engine 74 on west 83rd street between L25&E76.

Only 17 blocks between one another

 

[Roofman4]

I used the population growth of NYC from 2000 to 2020. During that time, while many cities like Baltimore and Detroit declined significantly, NYC grew tremendously - from 8M to somewhere between 8.4M to 8.8M. I believe the significance is that while some cities might be able to justify reducing fire and police forces because of significant population decline, NYC grew by maybe 400,00 to 800,00 inhabitants - without increasing fire companies or building new firehouses. That's like adding the city of Atlanta, or maybe 2 Atlantas, without adding an engine or a truck or firefighters. Let's not debate COVID and crime related departures of New Yorkers from the city the past few years. That's not the point. NYC has grown the past 2 decades and FDNY has not. That's why so many engine companies are doing 6000 runs. More people, more FDNY work. A lot more. So maybe there should be talk about more fire companies, not less. I think the union tries to make that point but doesn't seem to effectively get support and awareness because people who want to reduced fire budgets argue the decline in the number of fires, not overall work and lives saved.

Wikipedia NYC chart:
View attachment 21218

You also have to keep in mind the population being talked about is estimated census population. If you research groups and sites tracking immigration, there is an estimated 500,000 to 800,000 illegal immigrants living in NYC, most likely living in illegally modified (Black Sunday) tenements etc. The total population is probably more realistic terms is nearly 10 million. Talk about a strain on service and city aid.

 

[entropychaser]

Probably the busiest firehouse in Chicago is Engine 45/Truck 15 quartered at 4600 S. Cottage Grove Avenue. In 1950 the U.S. Census recorded over 100,000 people living in their still alarm district.

 

[mack]

Estimates up to 3 million more people in NYC daily if tourists, commuting workers, college students and visitors are included. A lot of lives to protect

 

[entropychaser]

You also have to keep in mind the population being talked about is estimated census population. If you research groups and sites tracking immigration, there is an estimated 500,000 to 800,000 illegal immigrants living in NYC, most likely living in illegally modified (Black Sunday) tenements etc. The total population is probably more realistic terms is nearly 10 million. Talk about a strain on service and city aid.

Not to mention a strain on illegal basement apartments in Queens,