Open Cab Rigs

memory master · Feb 19, 2013

Were the 1954 Mack 1000 gpm pumpers, all assigned to Manhattan companies, the last of the open cab pumpers? I would think that the next batch in 1958 were all closed cab CF models. As for truck companies I think the early 60's Macks, ALF's and Seagraves were the last open cabs. Anybody know differently?

68jk09 · Feb 19, 2013

Not entirely sure about the Pumpers but the '54 might well be the last open cab Pumper.......the '63 Seagrave was the last open cab LAD (the Shops placed wooden covers on these around '65).....the '68 Alfs were the 1st LAD w/a partially enclosed cab (Chauf Off & 2 jump seats....Tiller still had wooden roof cover & no doors)....same w/the '69 Alfs...... also 2 demo Rearmounts one Seagrave originally LAD*27-2 & one Alf originally TCU 732 had partially enclosed cabs (Chauf Off & 2 jump seats) all the rest of the LADs starting w/ the '70 Rearmounts & the '74 Tillers had fully enclosed cabs & the Tiller seat was fully enclosed .......the original '74 Seagrave Tillers had a one piece canopy that slid back but soon thereafter Seagrave retrofitted the Tiller cover to a model like today where the roof was stationary & the individual side doors slid open.

guitarman314 · Feb 19, 2013

The 25 '54 Mack L pumpers were equipped with 1000gpm High Pressure pumps to make up for the city shutting down the High Pressure Hydrant water system (fat hydrants w/4outlets) in Manhattan. They were originally assigned to Engines: 1, 3, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 24, 26, 27, 28, 30, 31, 32, 33, 55 & 72. In later years some were reassigned: 1-224W, 6-206W, 9-9W, 10-83W-65, 11-91(2), 12-23-43W-207-247, 15-6, 16-271-202W, 17-330-279W, 24-24W, 27-215W, 28-228W, 30-226W, 32-245W, 33-27-33, 55-spare-2W, 72-41(2)-54.

lucky · Feb 19, 2013

The department also received some Ward LaFrance CD pumpers of the open cab type in 1954. Some of them probably wound up assigned to engine companies.

raybrag · Feb 19, 2013

The 1958 Macks were "C" models, not "CFs". And, of course, they had closed cabs (at least FDNY's did).

grumpy grizzly · Feb 19, 2013

Grew up in Boston, moved to Chicago. The garbage truck in
Chicago were enclosed cabs but the firefighers were on the ass end. This suks

68jk09 · Feb 19, 2013

This is a post i made awhile back on another site.....it contains some info on open cab vs closed cab.......................................................... Some history on Open vs Covered FDNY rigs....there were some closed cab Officer & Chauffer only ENG rigs back in the 30s .....as far as FDNY Ladder apparatus the open cabs were considered "neccesary" to be able to properly spot the exact position of the turntable......this was the thinking prior to the early '60s......all the old timers around then subscribded to this idea.....however when people made it a common practice to show thier appreciation by throwing objects from above then the thinking was forcibly changed.....around '65 LAD*26 was one of the first to design & build a cover over their open cab themselves......it however had a hinged section so that the portion over the Off. & Chauf. could be flipped back as the Unit pulled up to a Fire.......when the Job began to retrofit all the open cab LADs shortly thereafter they omitted the hinged flap.......everybody learned to live with a covered cab.....one of the teachings was to line up a ground level landmark below your target......such as a stoop or something while approaching then align your turntable with it.....the first retrofitted E & Ts had plywood covered cabs, jump seats & Tillers ....as well as the backstep on ENGs.......the retrofitted rigs originally were in the busier areas were civil unrest was more prevalent.....soon after all rigs were retrofitted w/plywood covering......the 1st FDNY purchased metal closed cab LADs were the '68 Amer La France's which still had a plywood Tiller cover...the '70 Rearmount Aerials were completely closed in as were the '74 Seagrave Tillers.....no open cab LADs were purchased after that.......i am not positive but i believe the '58 Mack ENGs were the early covered cab ENGs (aside from a few in the '30s)...of course in later years the entire cab & riding area was covered on all ENGs from the factory...i do not know when the last open cab (uncovered) was Officially placed out of service....i remember in the early '70s if a ghetto Unit needed a spare & only uncovered spare wooden aerials were available then we had to take the spare to a slow area & exchange rigs w/ a slow Co. to get a covered rig w/ a Metal Aerial for our area until our regular rig was repaired.

raybrag · Feb 19, 2013

Here is one of the 1958 Mac C's:

and 10 House's:

1261Truckie · Feb 21, 2013

It was funny to see, that as the FDNY made the transition from open cabs to closed cabs (especially on engine companies), the guys still rode on the backstep.

guitarman314 · Feb 21, 2013

1261Truckie said:
It was funny to see, that as the FDNY made the transition from open cabs to closed cabs (especially on engine companies), the guys still rode on the backstep.

Yes, and before that many truckies kept riding on the trailer running boards when went to cab-forward ladder trucks

68jk09 · Feb 21, 2013

guitarman314 said:
1261Truckie said:

It was funny to see, that as the FDNY made the transition from open cabs to closed cabs (especially on engine companies), the guys still rode on the backstep.

Click to expand...

Yes, and before that many truckies kept riding on the trailer running boards when went to cab-forward ladder trucks

.....In 108 when the '56 ALF was in service the guys still "rode the side" even though there were jump seats & standing room on the tractor (uncovered)....ENGs continued to ride the "backstep" well after covered jump seats were available.....the theory was to be able to stretch faster.

memory master · Feb 22, 2013

I recall when E297 had the 1960 Ward La France "Firebrand" model the guys on the back step used to refer to the bench seat behind the cab as "the old man's seat."

68jk09 · Apr 25, 2013

Photo of ENG*225 Open Cab Mack....... http://www.ebay.com/itm/B63-photo-of-FDNY-225-MACK-OPEN-CAB-/121098736884?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c320c14f4

JOR176 · Apr 25, 2013

68jk09 said:
Photo of ENG*225 Open Cab Mack....... http://www.ebay.com/itm/B63-photo-of-FDNY-225-MACK-OPEN-CAB-/121098736884?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c320c14f4

I remember in addition to 225's rig ,Engines 82, 231,235,281 for sure had them and they were referred to as "Baby Macks"

JOR176 · Apr 25, 2013

lucky said:
The department also received some Ward LaFrance CD pumpers of the open cab type in 1954. Some of them probably wound up assigned to engine companies.

I remember two Engines that were assigned 1954 Wards , 58 & 214 and probably more. BTW they were LOUD.

lucky · Apr 25, 2013

Engine 225 was assigned 2 pieces of apparatus some of the years they had that Mack. Their other piece was a post WWII open cab Ward Lafrance if I remember correctly.

johnd248 · Apr 25, 2013

During my years at E 248, we had a Mack with a covered cab and roof over the rear facing seats behind the officer and chauffeur. Probably around 1964-5, there was more bad behavior in Coney Island than Flatbush; we had to swap engines with E 244 (RIP) and take their Ward LaFrance which could have been a 1954. Open cab, no rear facing seats, no cover over the back step. When all that could burn in CI did so, E 244 was going to be disbanded. Our Captain successfully fought to get our Mack back and we did.

I remember responding down either Nostrand or New York Avenue in that Ward LaFrance and a car filled with questionable citizens ran a red light and hit the engine in front on the driver's side. The rig was able to stop and their were no injuries to the members. The car careened across the intersection and drove into a storefront; all occupants were injured.

guitarman314 · Apr 25, 2013

JOR176 said:
lucky said:

The department also received some Ward LaFrance CD pumpers of the open cab type in 1954. Some of them probably wound up assigned to engine companies.

Click to expand...

I remember two Engines that were assigned 1954 Wards , 58 & 214 and probably more. BTW they were LOUD.

Waukesha engines on those 1951 to 1954 Ward LaFrances were loud but they were fast, and except for leaky booster tanks, very dependable.

lucky · Apr 25, 2013

The vacuum clutch on those La France rigs became undependable and the MPO needed long legs to hold the clutch in while he was at the pump panel going from road to prime or to pump.

guitarman314 · May 1, 2013

68jk09 said:
Photo of ENG*225 Open Cab Mack....... http://www.ebay.com/itm/B63-photo-of-FDNY-225-MACK-OPEN-CAB-/121098736884?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c320c14f4

1947 Mack 750gpm pumper shop#1144 assigned to E225. The other companies that got them in 1947 were: 23, 35, 38, 44, 52, 54, 65*, 231, 274, 276, 281, 286, 289, 295, 312, 315, 317, 321 & 323. Engines 35, 38, 52, 231, 286, 295, 315, 317, 321 & 323 were replaced with booster equipped 1951 thru '54 Ward LaFrances then reassigned or turned into hosewagons. E312 got a 1951 WLF Quad, E65 swapped theirs in 1951 for E71's 1938 Ahrens-Fox and E23 and E54 got reassigned 1954 Mack L 1000gpm pumpers in 1959.