Pre Veranzan narrows bridge question

[anesti]

before its completion how would relocators and multiple alarm units get into staten island and vise versa, would it be through ferry service or through jersey city into bayonne and over the Goethals brdige? would have been a very long response anyway.

 

[firebuffkevin]

By ferry.  I recall a major brush fire (before the Veranzano Bridge) and seeing Engines and Truck companies loading up at South Ferry in Manhattan.  

I would think that there were mutual aid agreements with Jersey fire companies as well.  The Outerbridge Crossing over the Arthur Kill connects 440 in Staten Island to Perth Amboy, NJ; the Goethals, also over the Arthur Kill connects the Staten island Expressway with Elizabeth, NJ.  Both spans opened in June 1928.

Remember, before the Veranzano, Staten Island was much less developed.

 

[guitarman314]

Yes, and since you asked, I have an old Staten Island assignment card from 1934 for you to look at.

 

[guitarman314]

  The reason why there were lots of "repeat" relocations is that before 1939 there were many double companies in Manhattan so those were usually the first to go to Staten Island. Engines: 5, 7, 13, 16, 18, 26, 30, 31, 33, 76 & 91 still had 2nd sections in 1934.  

 

[anesti]

very interesting guitarman would anyone know how long it would take for a relocator to get from the fire house into a ferry and  into the response area of the unit they were covering??

 

[firebuffkevin]

Yes, and since you asked, I have an old Staten Island assignment card from 1934 for you to look at.

Don't forget that there was ferry service from 69th Street Bayridge, Brooklyn to St. George, Staten Island as well.  This service stopped operating in November 1964, after the Veranzano Bridge opened.
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[firebuffkevin]

Yes, and since you asked, I have an old Staten Island assignment card from 1934 for you to look at.

E 208  which relocated to E 32  became E 167 in Staten Island on November 22, 1972.

 

[guitarman314]

Yes, and since you asked, I have an old Staten Island assignment card from 1934 for you to look at.

Don't forget that there was ferry service from 69th Street Bayridge, Brooklyn to St. George, Statem Island as well.  This service stopped operating in November 1964, after the Veranzano Bridge opened.
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Yes, I remember the 69th St. ferry but for some reason all the responses back in 1934 appear to be via the Staten Island Ferry Terminal at Whitehall St.

 

[bklyndisp54]

I remember, almost verbatim, the text of a typed index card pasted to E241's 1960's running board...

"88-200 
Upon receipt of this signal respond to the Staten Island ferry terminal at the foot of Bay Ridge Avenue. Cross over to St. George and contact the Richmond dispatcher by telephone"

Staten Island was divided up into grid co-ordinates to make it easier for out of boro outfits to find their fires.  I imagine the theory was that if they got close enough they'd spot the smoke!  ;D

 

[guitarman314]

As a young South Bronx buff I remember seeing Engine 41's board with all of its 1st, 2nd & 3rd due boxes and at the bottom right were 2 Staten Island boxes that said "Mutual Aid". Yes, 4 guys hangin' on for dear life on the backstep of that 1953 Ward LaFrance pumper would travel all the way down to the Ferry Terminal from E. 150th St.

 

[yocap]

I seem to remember they also had a box for the Holland Tunnel which would also direct some midtown and downtown unit to Staten Island via the tunnel and Jersey.

 

[Atlas]

Stop & think about this. Years ago the assignment cards were hand made & the staff at Alarm Assignment & Planning took the time to figure things out. They made plans!  Part of the plans called for creating a response to help Staten Island with an ample response that would not create a large amount of relocations. Remember, if you have an old assignment cards, look at the dates that they were issued.
Check the back, sometimes the dates of changes were written on the rear of the card.  Some of those companies on the card might have been disbanded or relocated since then. Years ago, Engine 154 in SI was near the ferry terminal, today its in the Travis section.

Lower Manhattan in the City Hall area also changed! So you have to keep this in mind when reviewing old documents. Example - Engine 6 today is in Engine 32 fire house. Engine 32 was disbanded. Engine 4 was disbanded & then reopened into another station. Engine 10 was relocated, & Engine 29 was also disbanded. There was an Engine 12 near where 1 Police Plaza is. Engine 7's second section was disbanded in 1939. 

Also depending upon the year, there are newer companies on Staten Island since the big brush fire in 1962. In 1960 Engine 165's station was open. The first new company since the late 30's. The other new ones are 154 redeployment, & the new stations for Engine 166, 167, & more recent Engine 168.

Today, the assignments are computer generated based on the information in the computer. Such as a Brooklyn response to Staten Island - Engine 284 might be second or third due to the bridge (Bklyn side) but if they were 4th due they would not respond because they have Sat 3 in quarters. There is a restriction in the FDNY computer that would stop their initial response.

The Staten Island grid system was established in the 70' or the 80's because of the problems finding street locations on S.I. - only a few numbers streets. It used map books that were produced by the NYC Planning Department. 

Some of the companies south of the Staten Island Expwy have the biggest first due areas in the city with over 300 boxes, & numerous dead end streets, in addition to numerous private developments that are hidden from local streets as you drive by they have there hands full. Only adding more head aches to the local companies.