Rescue's Apparatus

B

baileyjeff

Joined
Aug 16, 2008
Messages
1,207
I work in the Bronx and have noticed Rescue 3 has been in Rescue 5's former apparatus for a long time and was wondering if anyone knew what is wrong with Rescue 3's new apparatus.
 
baileyjeff said:
I work in the Bronx and have noticed Rescue 3 has been in Rescue 5's former apparatus for a long time and was wondering if anyone knew what is wrong with Rescue 3's new apparatus.
Click to expand...

It's a Ferrara.
 
All the Ferraras were poorly made everyone who has one is expierencing problems  We do have very detailed specs down to every nut and bolt but for some reason we just aren't having good luck with these pieces of shit
And yes the main reason is probably because they are Ferraras lol
 
3 of the 5 Rescues are currently using Spares - R1 Pierce, R2 ALF & R3 Ex R5

On another note the Mack Rescue is also OOS due to an MVA so the Rescue Pool is starting to run thin
 
Dam good thing they have a bunch of spares ! It's like were back around 2006 with those 3 rigs running together
 
baileyjeff said:
I work in the Bronx and have noticed Rescue 3 has been in Rescue 5's former apparatus for a long time and was wondering if anyone knew what is wrong with Rescue 3's new apparatus.
Click to expand...

R-3 has been having problems with the rig for 4-5 months. The initial problem was the Telma Retarder which had

shifted. After that they had several other problems including a red wrench which would show up for about 3 sec.

when it was started.Ferrara is trying to figure out what is causing this. No update when they will get their rig back.

They were also in R-6 for awhile
 
4 truck said:
All the Ferraras were poorly made everyone who has one is expierencing problems  We do have very detailed specs down to every nut and bolt but for some reason we just aren't having good luck with these pieces of shit
And yes the main reason is probably because they are Ferraras lol
Click to expand...
Specifications can only go so far in the purchasing process.  In reality they could actually go so far as to specify each individual nut and bolt but that doesn't ensure a good piece of equipment.  The dedication and skills of the people assembling them make a huge difference as does the overall philosophy of the company equipment is purchased from.
 
BCR said:
Dam good thing they have a bunch of spares ! It's like were back around 2006 with those 3 rigs running together
Click to expand...

Back in the mid 90's we were given a spare Suburban and a former ALF Satellite to be used in combination as a spare rescue. 
 
Given the complexity and specificity of FDNY's apparatus specs, does anybody feel that some of these seemingly never-ending maintenance issues are due to "over-complex" spec'ing?

In other words - anybody can customize a truck down to the nut and bolt.  However, when something does break or go wrong, are all the extensive spec customizations making it take that much longer to diagnose the issue and get the necessary part(s)?

Would a more basic rescue spec be a little easier to fix and get back online quicker?

Just some food for thought; OK - let the attacks begin! :-)

 
FlashoverImages said:
Given the complexity and specificity of FDNY's apparatus specs, does anybody feel that some of these seemingly never-ending maintenance issues are due to "over-complex" spec'ing?

In other words - anybody can customize a truck down to the nut and bolt.  However, when something does break or go wrong, are all the extensive spec customizations making it take that much longer to diagnose the issue and get the necessary part(s)?

Would a more basic rescue spec be a little easier to fix and get back online quicker?

Just some food for thought; OK - let the attacks begin! :-)
Click to expand...

No attacks, just some correction.  FDNY's apparatus specs are very simple.  Compared to the crazy Rescue/Pumper, Tiller/Engine Volly buff rigs running around Nassau County, they're bare bones.  There are some specifics that are irregular, but they tend to pertain to size (rigs have to fit in old buildings) and durability.  The city specs specific parts to insure that they'll take the abuse of city streets and high call volume.  They also spec to maintain as much uniformity as possible.

I can't speak to the KME apparatus because they've scarcely been in the field, but I can speak to Ferrara.  The problems have been build quality, not spec related. 
-A/C units catching fire
-air brake lines being run too close to the exhaust and melting
-exhaust manifold too close to engine cover burning insulation
-cracked radiators
-faulty cab lock sensors
-master cylinders freezing
-rear axle springs braking from mis-alignment

The issues go on and on.  It's a shame that the city has little control over who they award the bid to.  I'm sure a decent case could be made for spending a little more on a vehicle with a proven track record of durability with the FDNY.....alas, competitive bidding laws kill that hope and require low bid purchasing. 
 
FlashoverImages said:
Given the complexity and specificity of FDNY's apparatus specs, does anybody feel that some of these seemingly never-ending maintenance issues are due to "over-complex" spec'ing?

In other words - anybody can customize a truck down to the nut and bolt.  However, when something does break or go wrong, are all the extensive spec customizations making it take that much longer to diagnose the issue and get the necessary part(s)?

Would a more basic rescue spec be a little easier to fix and get back online quicker?

Just some food for thought; OK - let the attacks begin! :-)
Click to expand...
As Johnny said above, the problem has nothing to do with the specifications!  If anything the specifications should make it easier to repair the trucks and keep them in service because of the commonality in parts required.  The problems are completely because of the builders lack of attention to detail and in some cases sloppy engineering practices.  Rescues, are one of the least complex firetrucks in service anywhere.

The bidding process is designed to make bidding fair for everyone but in the end all it does in many cases, especially this one, is let the least qualified bidder win!  It's too bad that New York City like many major corporations doesn't have a clause that allows the "Best Bidder" to be selected instead of the "Lowest Bidder"!  In many cases there is a big difference, especially in the long run.
 
Elsewhere on this this site is a discussion of a 1956 American La France 85ft tiller that was L-103(2)'s first rig. Imagine a 12 year old Ferrara, KME or even a Seagrave being utilized a a new company's first truck?
Manufacturers need to be more conscientious when building these rigs and municipalities need to be more critical when accepting the finished products. The practice of large orders of unproven apparatus is foolish and more costly in the long run
 
1261Truckie said:
Elsewhere on this this site is a discussion of a 1956 American La France 85ft tiller that was L-103(2)'s first rig. Imagine a 12 year old Ferrara, KME or even a Seagrave being utilized a a new company's first truck?
Manufacturers need to be more conscientious when building these rigs and municipalities need to be more critical when accepting the finished products. The practice of large orders of unproven apparatus is foolish and more costly in the long run
Click to expand...

I agree with most of what you say here.  Quality just isn't where it used to be.  That said, I'll take a little of the heat off of the manufacturers.  If they could build a simpler, small rig, they would.  NFPA, OSHA, Federal DOT and the EPA have placed tremendous regulation and demand on truck builders.  They're so over-stuffed with emissions control, computer this, computer that, ect. ect. that they're bound to be less reliable.

As for the large order....well, seems silly to me as well.  We need engines, and we need them now, but buying one and evaluating it's weak points for a year seems bright.  Ordering 91 before the first one hits the road?  I don't get that.
 
Back in the old days apparatus manufacturers like Mack made the majority of the components themselves. I think today it is just the opposite, most of the parts come from outside vendors/suppliers.
 
1261Truckie said:
Elsewhere on this this site is a discussion of a 1956 American La France 85ft tiller that was L-103(2)'s first rig. Imagine a 12 year old Ferrara, KME or even a Seagrave being utilized a a new company's first truck?
Manufacturers need to be more conscientious when building these rigs and municipalities need to be more critical when accepting the finished products. The practice of large orders of unproven apparatus is foolish and more costly in the long run
Click to expand...
LAD*126 had a '56 ALF for 19 years & they ran a lot w/it.
 
Bottom line is today everything is made to be disposable, if truck manufactures made truck to last 30 years then they would sell about a third of what they sell now, and it's not just trucks, something as simple as a lawn mower, my father had a nice push mower about 15 20 years old and the carberator was shot, the guy at the repair place told him just to throw the mower away and buy a new one it's not worth fixing stuff like that anymore. 200-250 for a decent self propeled 21 inch mower compared to a 65 for a new carb and over a 100 for a tune up and new blade. Point being with our mentality these days of haveing to buy the cheapest, manufactures build cheap disposable crap.
 
BCR said:
Bottom line is today everything is made to be disposable, if truck manufactures made truck to last 30 years then they would sell about a third of what they sell now, and it's not just trucks, something as simple as a lawn mower, my father had a nice push mower about 15 20 years old and the carberator was shot, the guy at the repair place told him just to throw the mower away and buy a new one it's not worth fixing stuff like that anymore. 200-250 for a decent self propeled 21 inch mower compared to a 65 for a new carb and over a 100 for a tune up and new blade. Point being with our mentality these days of haveing to buy the cheapest, manufactures build cheap disposable crap.
Click to expand...
I totally agree with the statement that manufacturers are not building things with the same quality and since technology changes so fast today people are replacing items before they are broken However i don't when you spend around a half million dollars or more you should get better quaility.
 
grumpy grizzly said:
Back in the old days apparatus manufacturers like Mack made the majority of the components themselves. I think today it is just the opposite, most of the parts come from outside vendors/suppliers.
Click to expand...
Very good point, that aspect however also had a downside.  With commonality of certain items such as pumps, engines, transmissions, etc. between different equipment from various manufacturers it's much easier for the shops be able to work on them and keep parts in stock.  The bad part is that the pride for the manufacture of knowing that everything they built works fine has gone away because so many parts of the apparatus come from somebody else.
 
A good example is the ignition switch debacle at GM, that one, small piece having been manufactured by a contractor without proper quality control by the manufacturer or inspection by GM prior to installation in how many hundreds of thousands (millions?) of vehicles.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top