Second sections

[fdhistorian]

Second section companies, both engine and ladder companies, were originally established during the days of horse drawn apparatus to increase the availability of companies in high fire challenge areas of the city such as lower Manhattan. Both sections had the same response area but usually not the same incident. On any incident, one section would be assigned on the running cards. For a subsequent incident, the 2nd section would be available to respond. This doubled the company’s availability and minimized the need for numerous relocations. That is why early running cards did not show 2nd section companies – two section companies were simply capable of being at two separate incidents at the same time. The rare incidents that went above a 5th alarm, known as master alarms and simultaneous calls, could draw both sections of a company. In those incidents, the two-section fire company would usually be covered by one relocator.

2nd sections of the early motorized days were used to double the staffing and apparatus of companies in remote areas distant from other companies. Coney Island and Far Rockaway had 2nd section engine companies that became separate distinct units with their own numbers. Once they became separate units, each had their own first alarm district and running card assignments.

War years 2nd sections were assigned together but could easily find themselves at separate incidents when activity levels were high, the very reason why they were formed. A 2nd section at Engine 82 was established with its own identity (Engine 85). Initially assigned on the same alarms, they were given their own separate alarm assignments in an effort to maintain company availability in their area.

Most of the War Years 2nd section companies were reorganized as individual separate companies although not all remain in service to the present day.

 

[ta176]

At 233 & 233-2 on Hull Street there were several boxes that we both responded to due to a considered high life threat. One example was Fulton & Rockaway which was a Subway station. A few times we both were at a multiple alarm because as one section responded to a fire, another box in the vicinity would be pulled and the other section would be put to work at the same fire. One that I remember was Bushwick & Decatur and the 1st section responded on the box and we then responded to Broadway & Rockaway and it was a 3rd Alarm fire and we were put to work there.

 

[mack]

New units established on the same day that a 2nd section company was disbanded.

Early 1900's

Engine 27-2 became Engine 301
Engine 72-2 became Ladder 146
Engine 80-2 became Engine 293

Ladder 28-2 became Ladder 142
Ladder 35-2 became Ladder 143

Mid 1900's

Engine 245-2 became Engine 326
Engine 246-2 became Engine 327
Engine 264-2 became Engine 328
Engine 287-2 became Engine 292

War Years

Engine 41-2 became Engine 66
Engine 46-2 became Engine 88-2
Engine 50-2 became Ladder 61
Engine 88-2 became Engine 72
Engine 233-2 became Ladder 176

Ladder 27-2 became Ladder 58

Battalion 3-2 became Battalion 27
Battalion 12-2 became Battalion 25
Battalion 14-2 became Battalion 26
Battalion 18-2 became Battalion 56
Battalion 37-2 became Battalion 28
Battalion 39-2 became Battalion 29
Battalion 44-2 became Battalion 58

Great information, as usual. Thanks Iggy - fdhistorian. Happy New Year.

 

[mack]

My father worked at Engine 246/Engine 327/Ladder 169 as a firefighter before the old firehouse on E23rd St was vacated. Engine 327 was originally organized as Engine 246-2. When I asked as a kid which engine company got to the fire first, he said it was simple. When the Telegraph System transmitted an alarm, if the location was to the right of quarters, Engine 246 was first due and usually left quarters first. If the box location was to the left of quarters, Engine 327 was first due. I may have the left or right assignment wrong, but the point was that each engine company had assigned 1st and 2nd due designations even though they were located in the same quarters and they turned out accordingly.

Engine 246/Engine 327/Ladder 169





Engine 327:

 

[mack]

The Combination Fire Companies of the 1970s attempted to combine Engine and Truck companies in selected lower response areas for budget savings. 4 captains replaced 2 captains and 6 lieutenants in three firehouses with engine and truck companies in the Bronx, Queens and SI. CFCs had 1972 Mack CF 1000 gpm Pumpers (Rapid Water) and 75 ft Mack Tower Ladders.

The combined companies had an engine section and a truck section - and always responded together. This made responses for special calls, specific one company emergencies and fires, relocations and multiple alarms very inflexible. It also limited leadership at working fires. Although the plan was for expansion to additional firehouses, the concept was poorly received and unsuccessful.

Staten Island Combination Fire Company 131 was formed from Engine 151 and Ladder 76 in Tottenville - the southern-most firehouse in SI and NYC. The "Combo" operated from 1974-1977:

 

[mack]

Engine 70 and Ladder 53, City Island, the Bronx, were disbanded to form Combination Fire Company 121, in service Aug. 24, 1974 to Nov. 22, 1975

 

[Lt. Q]

What a wealth of information can be found here. Thank you guys

 

[mack]

Engine 311 and Tower Ladder 158 in Queens were disbanded and Combination Fire Company 151 was placed in service from July 13, 1974 to Nov. 12, 1977:

 

[mack]

The Combination Fire Company number designation was a 3 digit, one hundred-series number.

The first CFC number was "1".

The second digit indicated borough: "2" the Bronx, "3" SI, "5" Queens.

The 3rd digit indicated CFC unit in that borough.

CFC 121 was the first CFC in the Bronx. A second Bronx CFC would have been CFC 122.

The concept was for approximately 10 or 12 CFCs to be formed for the program to save significant budget dollars, if successful. The CFC program lasted 1974-1977.

 

[mack]

Note - CFC 121 on City Island ran from Aug. 24, 1974 to Nov. 22, 1975, 15 months, and then was disbanded, 2 years sooner than the other CFCs in Queens and SI.

When CFC 121 was disbanded in 1975, only Engine 70 was reorganized. Ladder 53 would not be reorganized until 1986.

Engine 70 covered City Island without a truck company from 1975-1986. It was assigned a Mack pumper with a Tele-Squirt device as a poor substitute for a truck company.




Note:

The Tele-Squrt was an aerial firefighting device developed by the Snorkel Fire Equipment Company.
Following the success of the Snorkel and Squrt, in 1972 Snorkel introduced a telescoping aerial device it called the Tele-Squrt.
Like the Squrt it featured a remotely operated nozzle at the tip, but it also provided a lightweight ladder along the boom. It was available in 50, 65 and 75 foot versions. The new Tele-Squrt offered many of the same advantages of the Squrt, primarily the ability to mount it on a pumper, but the addition of the ladder gave it additional capabilities.

The Tele-Squrt would become Snorkel's best selling product, and other manufacturers were soon offering their own version of the concept.
In 1975 the Tele-Squrt 35 was introduced. While it carried the Tele-Squrt name, it was actually an articulating boom aerial device more closely related to the Squrt.

The Ladder Tower Company acquired Snorkel in 2014 and currently offers the TeleSqurt in 50 and 65 foot versions.

The proper brand spelling is "Squrt" and "Tele-Squrt" without the "i." When LTC acquired the rights to Snorkel's products in 2014, they dropped the dash and changed the spelling to TeleSqurt.

 

[grumpy grizzly]

Note - CFC 121 on City Island ran from Aug. 24, 1974 to Nov. 22, 1975, 15 months, and then was disbanded, 2 years sooner than the other CFCs in Queens and SI.

When CFC 121 was disbanded in 1975, only Engine 70 was reorganized. Ladder 53 would not be reorganized until 1986.

Engine 70 covered City Island without a truck company from 1975-1986. It was assigned a Mack pumper with a Tele-Squirt device as a poor substitute for a truck company.

View attachment 15976


Note:

The Tele-Squrt was an aerial firefighting device developed by the Snorkel Fire Equipment Company.
Following the success of the Snorkel and Squrt, in 1972 Snorkel introduced a telescoping aerial device it called the Tele-Squrt.
Like the Squrt it featured a remotely operated nozzle at the tip, but it also provided a lightweight ladder along the boom. It was available in 50, 65 and 75 foot versions. The new Tele-Squrt offered many of the same advantages of the Squrt, primarily the ability to mount it on a pumper, but the addition of the ladder gave it additional capabilities.

The Tele-Squrt would become Snorkel's best selling product, and other manufacturers were soon offering their own version of the concept.
In 1975 the Tele-Squrt 35 was introduced. While it carried the Tele-Squrt name, it was actually an articulating boom aerial device more closely related to the Squrt.

The Ladder Tower Company acquired Snorkel in 2014 and currently offers the TeleSqurt in 50 and 65 foot versions.

The proper brand spelling is "Squrt" and "Tele-Squrt" without the "i." When LTC acquired the rights to Snorkel's products in 2014, they dropped the dash and changed the spelling to TeleSqurt.

I can just imagine trying to make a rescue over that.

 

[lucky]

You must remember that the members were working 23 hour days with 1 hour off for a meal and 1 day off per week. If your unit was closed or renumbered, you had to move your family to within a few blocks of your new company. My grandfather was in 8 Truck, lived on the lower
West Side and when Ladder 140 opened, he had to move to Ridgewood.

 

[mack]

Videos of 1970s Tele-Squirt apparatus (not FDNY):

 

[kidfrmqns]

Regarding the Second Sections; A member of this site told me when he worked Engine 50 and they added the Second Section, Engine 50-2 with them, he wasn't too happy about it.

Why ?
Because it cut his workload in half and he wanted to go to fires.

Of course also in that same firehouse was Ladder 19 and Division 6.

At shift change there were 17 firefighters going off duty, and 17 firefighters coming on duty
At times there were 34 firefighters in the kitchen of that firehouse during shift change

I have to wonder in the morning, "how many pots of coffee that required" ?

I often forget that 50/50-2/19/Div 6 were on E166 St until 1976. During all those busy war years they were coming out of that old house on a tight little street too.

 

[grumpy grizzly]

The Combination Fire Companies of the 1970s attempted to combine Engine and Truck companies in selected lower response areas for budget savings. 4 captains replaced 2 captains and 6 lieutenants in three firehouses with engine and truck companies in the Bronx, Queens and SI. CFCs had 1972 Mack CF 1000 gpm Pumpers (Rapid Water) and 75 ft Mack Tower Ladders.

The combined companies had an engine section and a truck section - and always responded together. This made responses for special calls, specific one company emergencies and fires, relocations and multiple alarms very inflexible. It also limited leadership at working fires. Although the plan was for expansion to additional firehouses, the concept was poorly received and unsuccessful.

Staten Island Combination Fire Company 131 was formed from Engine 151 and Ladder 76 in Tottenville - the southern-most firehouse in SI and NYC. The "Combo" operated from 1974-1977:

View attachment 15961

View attachment 15963

View attachment 15965

View attachment 15966

So FDNY saved money on salaries and replaced it with wear and tear on the apparatus when 2 companies had to respond as one for car fires, rubbish and other single company incidents. And did these companies re-locate to other houses?

 

[mack]

So FDNY saved money on salaries and replaced it with wear and tear on the apparatus when 2 companies had to respond as one for car fires, rubbish and other single company incidents. And did these companies re-locate to other houses?

Combination Fire Companies:

No Grump - The CFCs did not relocate. The city saved some salary money - 2 Capts 6 Lts vs 4 Captains, but the disadvantages were significant.

Small garbage fires required the full CFC - engine and ladder sections - to respond. Same response for all minor emergencies which would have been 1 unit only. Operations, relocations, staffing, multiple alarms, training - all had a negative impact.

 

[mack]

War Years - Second Sections:

When 2nd Sections were organized, they did not necessarily cut the number of runs and workers in half for the original engine or truck company. Fire activity was continually increasing in the late 60s and early 70s. The 2nd Sections were available to pick up the fires, MFAs and emergencies that surrounding companies or a relocating company would have been special called for.

Engine 50, for example, had 5884 runs with 2544 workers in 1969 as a single company. When 50-2 was organized in 1970, Engine 50-1's fire responses still increased significantly to 6880 runs with 2393 workers. Engine 50-2 had 4096 runs and 1226 workers for a half a year. Combined they responded to 10,976 runs with 3619 workers (which were pre-EMS activity).

Engine 41 had 5746 runs and 1997 workers in 1968. When a 2nd section was formed in 1969, Engine 41-1 had 5751 runs and 1634 workers. Engine 41-2 had 5475 runs and 1551 workers. The combined totals were 10,326 runs and 3185 workers, which probably could not have been done by a single section company.

There were several efforts made in addition to forming 2nd Sections to handle the tremendous fire response numbers. Boxes were reassigned to other units. Adaptive Response was placed into service in selective areas. Scheduled company interchanges took place between units in high response areas and units in lower response areas. Tactical Control Units were organized, which were actually 2nd Sections in service during peak hours. New companies were organized, sometimes from 2nd sections. Two pre-fabricated firehouses were constructed - Tin Houses - in busy areas. A new Division and new Battalions were organized. Discretionary Response Boxes were created. To reduce false alarms (MFA's) pull fire alarm boxes were replace by new voice alarm boxes with reduced response assignments. The Red Cap program was created to reduce arson.

And fire activity continued to increase and expand into new neighborhoods as the 1970s progressed.

 

[mack]

Second Sections organized during the late 1960s and 1970s were located in old firehouses which had limited space and facilities. Although new companies were beneficial for continually increasing workloads, there were many difficulties or challenges. Problems included: parking; lockers; crowded bunk rooms; kitchen capabilities; shared offices; limited showers, sinks and toilets; meal coordination; and apparatus floor space. Rigs were often parked in tandem and had to be moved frequently. Although there were difficulties, morale in busy 2 Section and TCU firehouses was very high and units had excellent reputations.

 

[fdhistorian]

So FDNY saved money on salaries and replaced it with wear and tear on the apparatus when 2 companies had to respond as one for car fires, rubbish and other single company incidents. And did these companies re-locate to other houses?

Combination Fire Companies:

No Grump - The CFCs did not relocate. The city saved some salary money - 2 Capts 6 Lts vs 4 Captains, but the disadvantages were significant.

Small garbage fires required the full CFC - engine and ladder sections - to respond. Same response for all minor emergencies which would have been 1 unit only. Operations, relocations, staffing, multiple alarms, training - all had a negative impact.

NYC used combination companies as interim measures until separate staffing could be provided.

The initial use of combination companies was to replace volunteer companies that had operated engines, hose wagons and ladder trucks. This approach was prevalent as FDNY expanded to villages in the Bronx and southern Brooklyn. Motorization of apparatus eliminated most combination companies by 1914 with a few lingering until the late 1920’s when community growth caught up with them.

The longest lasting combination companies were located at distant extremes of the city or on islands. Engine 52 was a combination company in remote Riverdale for 46 years while Engine 49 on Roosevelt (Welfare) Island was a combination company for its entire 76-year existence.

Geographically isolated companies were again chosen for combination companies in the mid 1970’s. Engine 70/Ladder 53, a combination company in previous years, located on City Island; Engine 151/Ladder 76, located on the remote end of Staten Island, and Engine 311/Ladder 158, located in a remote corner of Queens.

 

[entropychaser]

View attachment 15934

Now we have the captain!