Something for the Lawyers

A

arparkranger

Joined
Jul 1, 2020
Messages
11
It's going to be the latter regardless of validity, I suspect. My question would be was this a 'must fill' house under other circumstances? If so, they might have a shot at winning. If not, I'd be surprised if it goes anywhere.
 
F

FDNYSTATENISLAND

Joined
Apr 13, 2012
Messages
9,384
arparkranger said:
It's going to be the latter regardless of validity, I suspect. My question would be was this a 'must fill' house under other circumstances? If so, they might have a shot at winning. If not, I'd be surprised if it goes anywhere.
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Don’t think E167 is must fill. Unfortunate that E162 was involved in minor MVA too, further adding to the situation.
 
F

fdhistorian

Joined
Sep 25, 2013
Messages
915
GeoC said:
www.silive.com

3 FDNY members hurt battling Staten Island blaze plan to sue NYC over closed firehouse

As firefighters were inside, part of the rear of 84 Shotwell Ave. collapsed.
www.silive.com www.silive.com

Is this a valid cause or just a money maker for lawyers. Companies go out of service everyday for training, maintenance etc.
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www.nycfire.net

FDNY: Frequently Asked Questions

I've seen a lot of repeat questions asked all over on forums, youtube, etc. So here's me attempt at a comprehensive FAQ; feel free to add anything else you want to see added/corrected. Post 1: Fire Operations and Special Operations | Post 2: Communications and Apparatus | Post 3: History Fire...
www.nycfire.net www.nycfire.net

Q: What is the "G-Man Theory or *G-Man*
A: The "G-Man Theory", postulated many moons ago by long-time member (and mean ax-man) Guitarman314. For every 10-75 or greater job, the one thing that is most probable is that one or more 1st due or 1st alarm unit(s) is not available for one reason or another." A corollary to this theory is that if a given unit is out of service for training, Medicals, PM, etc. there will be a big job.
 
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A

airbusboeing

Joined
Mar 7, 2023
Messages
301
I see it adds 1 member as 2 members need to be the safety team. But is there the staffing available to fill those spots
 
C

CFDMarshal

Joined
Feb 27, 2010
Messages
1,246
airbusboeing said:
the 5 man engine doesn't really do much as its only 1 extra firefighter per engine. where if you add another company that's more members faster.
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I respectfully disagree in the fact that it makes the first due company up to 50% more effective in the stretching of the first line and getting water on the fire.
 
A

AYoung

Joined
Jan 29, 2019
Messages
89
CFDMarshal said:
I respectfully disagree in the fact that it makes the first due company up to 50% more effective in the stretching of the first line and getting water on the fire.
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Agreed. Several studies have been done showing the difference between 3/4 and 5 man engine companies. The difference is pretty profound. I'll see if I can find it and post it.
 
E

entropychaser

Joined
Jun 27, 2017
Messages
1,181
AYoung said:
Agreed. Several studies have been done showing the difference between 3/4 and 5 man engine companies. The difference is pretty profound. I'll see if I can find it and post it.
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Seems like at least one study was done in Dallas decades ago and published in Fire Engineering.
 
E

entropychaser

Joined
Jun 27, 2017
Messages
1,181
It was National news 30-40 years ago in San Francisco.

The members of SFFD Engine XY had a good day off shore fishing. That night's tour they were going to have a fish-fry in quarters. They invited neighboring Engine XZ to join them for dinner.

Sadly, two doors down from the temporarily vacant Engine XZ firehouse there's a house fire and a couple of kids are burned up.

It's a huge scandal and we know who was at fault. No matter the facts of life, I would guess that the Mayor-being a politician- was reluctant to stick up for the troops, I wonder what orders/transfers/lawsuits came down from that bad day.
 
A

airbusboeing

Joined
Mar 7, 2023
Messages
301
they need to hire more firefighters to staff the 5th fire fighter i believe that many engines come in with 5 members and members in a lower group engine get detailed out to a higher group unit in the division if it needs a spot filled
 
F

fdhistorian

Joined
Sep 25, 2013
Messages
915
AYoung said:
Agreed. Several studies have been done showing the difference between 3/4 and 5 man engine companies. The difference is pretty profound. I'll see if I can find it and post it.
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Studies have been done every decade since the 1980's. The most common evaluation is regarding time to accomplish tasks.
Staffing has been evaluated in the performance of simple and complex tasks but is difficult to assess for multiple simultaneous tasks due the differences in training, equipment, and tactics between departments.
Deployment analysis is also locally variable as there are multiple ways to achieve the Effective Fire Force standard.
An unavailable unit cannot provide service regardless of its staffing.
NYC units are generally better staffed than everywhere else.
 
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