The state of Volunteer Fire Companies

[GeoC]

Monroe County fire company and township at odds over fire service

Tobyhanna Township Vol. Fire Company pulled themselves out of service over a fire ordinance dispute.It allows the township to have more control over the fire company

www.wnep.com

This may not make national news but it’s happening around the nation. I live in this community and have had many discussions with the Volleys who run this company. They have been and still are self sufficient and only accepted monies from the Township due to the accepted law and tax codes. Now the Township supervisors want the ‘Company’to become a ‘Fire Department’ and controlled by some politicians who know nothing about what they do!
The supervisors would have ownership of all equipment, vehicles and buildings now owned by the Company. They would also have control of who is the Chief and Officers of the Company. Any decision to have training funds, equipment purchases etc would have to be approved by the supervisors.
The old axiom of ‘if it’s not broken don’t fix it’ and ‘follow the money’ is in play here. Is this Government takeover happening to other communities?

 

[Bulldog]

It's happening all over, the government agencies want more and more control and all they end up doing in the long run it screwing things up! Government has already severely hampered many volunteer fire departments because of all the training requirements imposed on them. Yes we all know training is good but...

 

[CFDMarshal]

The struggle is getting applicants whether they are volunteer or paid. Once you get them then the challenge is keeping them. We do not create the culture that was once created in the fire service. Maybe that is because of the general change in the public opinion of service.

 

[1261Truckie]

Another example of politicians getting greedy and the public they are supposed to serve getting shortchanged.
I also agree with CFD regarding the culture change. I can see it out here in the Northwest.

 

[CFDMarshal]

Another example of politicians getting greedy and the public they are supposed to serve getting shortchanged.
I also agree with CFD regarding the culture change. I can see it out here in the Northwest.

You are giving the politicians too much credit! There is a huge disconnect between what the public knows about emergency services and the level of service provided. We (fire service) have for the most part, done a piss poor job at explaining the needs and the requirements to the taxpayer on a grass roots level. Most of the time our interaction with the politicians are at budget time and then we expect them to give us what we want rather than taking the previous months explaining to them what we want and why it is good for the community.

 

[GeoC]

You are giving the politicians too much credit! There is a huge disconnect between what the public knows about emergency services and the level of service provided. We (fire service) have for the most part, done a piss poor job at explaining the needs and the requirements to the taxpayer on a grass roots level. Most of the time our interaction with the politicians are at budget time and then we expect them to give us what we want rather than taking the previous months explaining to them what we want and why it is good for the community.

Agreed with all comments above. We have as a nation are growing a population of entitlement. Very few know of the need for emergency services until they need one. Especially the powers to be. For them it’s control and influence.
The case above is a prime example.
Bake sales, golf tournaments etc a great for raising funds but how do you educate the public about the need for volunteers and services?
This Fire Company has the volunteers, thank God, but now need of the community to oust the present township Supervisors.

 

[kidfrmqns]

The struggle is getting applicants whether they are volunteer or paid. Once you get them then the challenge is keeping them. We do not create the culture that was once created in the fire service. Maybe that is because of the general change in the public opinion of service.

The problems on the volunteer are side are the commitment and the younger generation.

Back 30-35 years ago a guy joined and was voted in on meeting night. After a few in house drills and/or a 24 hours course he was riding the back step. Now a guy joins and he needs a medical, then he takes between 90-140 hour course just to be able to ride. These are good things for the member and for the department but unfortunately we lose many due to the commitment before they can even ride.

Then you have the new generation. I'm not putting down a new kid who just joined, however they were raised where a phone or a video game provides entertainment for hours or days. They don't need to join the local FD to get out of the house and do something. Everything they could want for excitement or socialization is right at their finger tips.

 

[XPFD3]

After 34+ years in the career fire service I retired to a shore community in southern New Jersey 15 years ago. Our community has a combination department with one career company and two volunteer companies. TRIED getting involved soon after moving here. TRIED is in caps for a reason. Eventually the politicians forced the career fire chief to remove the barricades and I became an active firefighter. At that time NJ would grandfather experienced firefighters based on a letter from their previous department. That is no longer the case since the state adopted PRO BOARD. I honestly believe that the fire side and regulatory agencies make it harder and harder to recruit and retain volunteers. 15 years later our town fathers are still removing barricades so the dedicated volunteer firefighters and fire police can help their community.

 

[nfd2004]

The problems on the volunteer are side are the commitment and the younger generation.

Back 30-35 years ago a guy joined and was voted in on meeting night. After a few in house drills and/or a 24 hours course he was riding the back step. Now a guy joins and he needs a medical, then he takes between 90-140 hour course just to be able to ride. These are good things for the member and for the department but unfortunately we lose many due to the commitment before they can even ride.

Then you have the new generation. I'm not putting down a new kid who just joined, however they were raised where a phone or a video game provides entertainment for hours or days. They don't need to join the local FD to get out of the house and do something. Everything they could want for excitement or socialization is right at their finger tips.

I totally AGREE with you, "kidfrmqns".

As a Volunteer Firefighter back in the early 1970's things were so different then.

Sometimes we had more volunteer members than places for them to ride on the rigs.

 

[alf2109]

Said Township Ordinance. At first glance, it appears to be accountability on the Fire Company receiving funds from the Township and liability on the part of the Township.

Tobyhanna Twp Draft Ordinance

 

[Atlas Aerial]

My vollie department (Chancellor Fire-Rescue Dept in Spotsylvania County, VA) closed its doors last year due to the lack of members and other reasons. The other vollie fire dept and rescue squad in the county are still operational but struggling. The county has gone 100% career staffing at all 11 stations. Volunteerism is dead I'm afraid to say. Reasons? 1. Way too many hurdles to get qualified and released. Simply takes too long. 2. Young generation doesn't have the same interst in public service. 3. The firehouse tradition (aka "Brotherhood") doesn't exist anymore outside of a few big cities. 3. Firefighter unions (there I said it) 4. Need for 24/7 ALS EMS and other selling points for local politicians. 5. Insurance ratings. But it all goes back to a lack of interested and motivated individuals to stay the course and fill the ranks. JMHO.

 

[mack]

Several issues identified above related to volunteer fire companies and volunteer department and there are more.

- efforts to transform existing volunteer companies and departments (e.g. - to town department or career department)
- lack of volunteer recruits and retention of members
- certification requirements for members
- budgets and costs
- lack of public awareness and support

Unfortunately, our society has changed, volunteerism is not valued, politicians are more concerned with social issues than providing fire services, liability concerns grow, EMS demands increase, fire service expectations expand (e.g. HAZMAT, civil disturbances, etc), increasing violence and crime, etc.

There are no simple solutions. I admire those who still volunteer in spite of the sacrifice, risks and demands.

 

[ChiefMike]

You are giving the politicians too much credit! There is a huge disconnect between what the public knows about emergency services and the level of service provided. We (fire service) have for the most part, done a piss poor job at explaining the needs and the requirements to the taxpayer on a grass roots level. Most of the time our interaction with the politicians are at budget time and then we expect them to give us what we want rather than taking the previous months explaining to them what we want and why it is good for the community.

One other thing we do is make things work. When we take cuts, we make some noise and answer the next call. Another cut...respond, provide service, back to quarters. It's simply what we as firefighters do, we love the job, so we get it done.

 

[CFDMarshal]

After 34+ years in the career fire service I retired to a shore community in southern New Jersey 15 years ago. Our community has a combination department with one career company and two volunteer companies. TRIED getting involved soon after moving here. TRIED is in caps for a reason. Eventually the politicians forced the career fire chief to remove the barricades and I became an active firefighter. At that time NJ would grandfather experienced firefighters based on a letter from their previous department. That is no longer the case since the state adopted PRO BOARD. I honestly believe that the fire side and regulatory agencies make it harder and harder to recruit and retain volunteers. 15 years later our town fathers are still removing barricades so the dedicated volunteer firefighters and fire police can help their community.

You are so correct on the PROBOARD requirement. I have a handful of FDNY retirees in my county that would like to get involved and due to the fact that FDNY doesn't use PROBOARD, they have to go through our state fire academy which is total BS. We are trying to get the state to approve a lateral training program. But who knows!

 

[grumpy grizzly]

Several issues identified above related to volunteer fire companies and volunteer department and there are more.

- efforts to transform existing volunteer companies and departments (e.g. - to town department or career department)
- lack of volunteer recruits and retention of members
- certification requirements for members
- budgets and costs
- lack of public awareness and support

Unfortunately, our society has changed, volunteerism is not valued, politicians are more concerned with social issues than providing fire services, liability concerns grow, EMS demands increase, fire service expectations expand (e.g. HAZMAT, civil disturbances, etc), increasing violence and crime, etc.

There are no simple solutions. I admire those who still volunteer in spite of the sacrifice, risks and demands.

Where I live is mostly farming communities, my town is considered a "bedroom community". Most of the younger people work in Peoria or Bloomington/Normal so are not available to volunteer and/or respond. The farms are pretty spread out, but you can't just stop what they are doing when the alarm sounds. People are just not around like in the old days, especially those who man the ambulance, sometimes our response comes from the next town which is a few miles away. But seeing as how people help each other here I feel if they could volunteer they would but the situation dictates something else. Just my two cents worth!

 

[GeoC]

Said Township Ordinance. At first glance, it appears to be accountability on the Fire Company receiving funds from the Township and liability on the part of the Township.

Tobyhanna Twp Draft Ordinance

What I hear is that the Kalahari Resort was told there would be a Paid Fire Department in the Township for there development and expansion. They would help pay for it, so they came to the first meeting and presented the Fire Company a check for $15,000. That’s not enough to outfit one firefighter!
With a new developments in the works, Margaritaville Resort and Pocono Springs Amusement Area the pressure is on to provide a Paid Department to appease the developers. All for Insurance purposes.
The Tobyhanna Volunteers are the best equipped and manned company in the township. They’re new purchase of a $1.4 million Towerladder was for the Kalahari resort to reach the upper floors.
With no input from the volleys they were being told to hand over the building, apparatus, equipment etc or be decertified! Does this sound like America or a shake down by some gangsters.
The paid part of the equation can be accomplished if clear heads get together and compromise.