WILL FD/EMS BE ENCRYPTED THIS YEAR----PD ALREADY TESTING RADIOS

[REDDEVIL_59]

PD already has 30,000 of the radios and is intending to shut off the analog system, Radio Zone by Radio Zone this year. nCV19 only interrupted their plan, so we have a little more time. The Press will be cut out too under this plan.

Not sure if this topic already exists. If so remove, or just put up a link to the extant one. Thanks.

WHAT DO WE KNOW ABOUT THIS?

 

[REDDEVIL_59]

Since there are no replies, let me give my thoughts.

1. We as taxpayers have a right to listen to the everyday calls, routine or otherwise.
2. PD's false narrative and specious arguments that we should not be able to hear negotiations between PD/FBI and some 'kidnappers' is correct, but we can not hear those now, because of encryption! Nor should we be able to eavesdrop on joint NYPD, State Police, FBI, CIA, Secret Service, Military Intelligence etc.-----these are already scrambled!! No, they want to cut us off from 'Shots Fired', robberies in progress, traffic accidents and fires etc. You know the stuff.
Just as an example fit for today's environment of the last two weeks--------Suppose those cops in the Floyd Choke Hold Case had made a racial remark on the radio either just before going into action or during the event itself and no civilian or Press person could hear it in real time. Do you really believe it would still be on the tape when it was given to the Press after the fact? They still argue 57 years after the Kennedy Assassination what was really on the dictabelt recording of the two Dallas police channels. Of course only modified FM radios could have heard anything back then but the news agencies might have had real equipment.

I will give my ideas for a solution to this problem later. Meanwhile any thoughts?................................................

 

[nfd2004]

"REDDEVIL_59", I don't think you are alone. I can tell you that I have enjoyed listening to police, fire, and EMS for years.

The first police call I ever heard was a fatal stabbing at a high school in Bridgeport, Ct where I was living at the time. That goes back "decades" ago. I was "hooked" from then on. That went on for years until not too long ago - those Bridgeport Police calls are all encrypted now.

As the years went by sometime around 1968-69-70, I was able to listen to the FDNY. Of course the FDNY War Years had started. My father, a Bridgeport Firefighter at the time also started to listen. He was amazed at hearing the progress reports. He told me he could just picture the fire in his mind. Bridgeport and other fire depts. were NOT doing such reports. It was certainly an experience for him to hear that.

Once in awhile I go on a web site called; "Radio Reference". On that site people post the latest news of what's going on in scanner world as it relates to police, fire, and EMS.

For me it is discouraging to see so many depts. (police, fire, EMS) going to encryption. A form of blocking radio transmissions from being heard. I then think "how lucky I was to be able to listen to all the activity of our Emergency Services before that".

I remember driving down to Orlando from Connecticut and I had programmed just about every major city and county police/fire dept in my scanner along the way. As one police or firre channel faded out, I started to pick up another.

There has been fire buff groups organized who were made up of good people, NOT criminals. Many of us would listen to the police and EMS too.

It's sad for me to think that the NYPD has already started with encrypting channels and I'm sure at some point the FDNY and FDNY/EMS will follow.

I just bought a brand new scanner because my other scanners can NOT pick up our new local police channel. I have been told that it is a very simple operation to add encryption and block everyone from listening.

I hope this doesn't happen but I really don't think that our vote counts.

 

[McMurphy]

"REDDEVIL_59", I don't think you are alone. I can tell you that I have enjoyed listening to police, fire, and EMS for years.

The first police call I ever heard was a fatal stabbing at a high school in Bridgeport, Ct where I was living at the time. That goes back "decades" ago. I was "hooked" from then on. That went on for years until not too long ago - those Bridgeport Police calls are all encrypted now.

As the years went by sometime around 1968-69-70, I was able to listen to the FDNY. Of course the FDNY War Years had started. My father, a Bridgeport Firefighter at the time also started to listen. He was amazed at hearing the progress reports. He told me he could just picture the fire in his mind. Bridgeport and other fire depts. were NOT doing such reports. It was certainly an experience for him to hear that.

Once in awhile I go on a web site called; "Radio Reference". On that site people post the latest news of what's going on in scanner world as it relates to police, fire, and EMS.

For me it is discouraging to see so many depts. (police, fire, EMS) going to encryption. A form of blocking radio transmissions from being heard. I then think "how lucky I was to be able to listen to all the activity of our Emergency Services before that".

I remember driving down to Orlando from Connecticut and I had programmed just about every major city and county police/fire dept in my scanner along the way. As one police or firre channel faded out, I started to pick up another.

There has been fire buff groups organized who were made up of good people, NOT criminals. Many of us would listen to the police and EMS too.

It's sad for me to think that the NYPD has already started with encrypting channels and I'm sure at some point the FDNY and FDNY/EMS will follow.

I just bought a brand new scanner because my other scanners can NOT pick up our new local police channel. I have been told that it is a very simple operation to add encryption and block everyone from listening.

I hope this doesn't happen but I really don't think that our vote counts.

Just curious as to wha type of scanner you picked up. In the market for a new one. Thanks

 

[nfd2004]

Just curious as to wha type of scanner you picked up. In the market for a new one. Thanks

The type of scanner I just bought was a Uniden BCD996P2.

My brother was good enough to program it for me with his computer. I'm lost these days when it comes to that.

 

[jtsjc1]

The 996P2 is excellent.

 

[McMurphy]

The 996P2 is excellent.

Thanks!

 

[dan]

The new FDNY APX portables are capable of encryption and are already programmed with encrypted channels. Given the events of the last few weeks NYPD needs to go encrypted sooner then later. Too many stolen and buff programmed radios out there that were causing problems and putting NYPD and FDNY lives in danger. Sorry but times are changing but it is inevitable. Fortunately FD is further away from any type of widespread encryption

 

[BritishAndy]

Our FD channels across the United Kingdom have been encrypted since around 2009, the PD went the same way a few years prior.

The narrative here is simply terrorism related. Anyone listening to the radio traffic of the emergency services is clearly a criminal, terrorist or up to some sort of skulduggery, period.
Overall here in the UK the concept of fire buffs is lost on many fire departments and members, yes we get countless guys who are friendly, receptive, welcoming etc, but the thought of people actually wanting to buff incidents is frowned upon here.

They actually had a law in the UK which made listening to and acting upon radio transmissions of the emergency services illegal. It was rarely enforced and mostly overlooked but there is a famous story from many years ago which is worth telling.

The police in South Yorkshire, UK deliberately transmitted reports on their radio scheme of a UFO landing in a field near Doncaster, then, when people turned up to see for themselves they were promptly arrested for acting upon the information heard on their scanners!

UFO trap

Detectives transmitted a hoax radio message about a UFO landing near Doncaster, South Yorkshire, then arrested several people who turned up at the spot, charging them with illegally using scanners to monitor police radio transmissions.

www.independent.co.uk

Anyway, I hope you guys continue the pleasure of listening to the Bravest for a long time to come.

 

[REDDEVIL_59]

Thanks for the responses. Really felt that more members of this type of blog would be concerned about this.

The UFO police fakeout caper is amusing. But it works both ways.
Back when NYPD was allowed to have car pursuits, even when they themselves did not witness the initial crime that started the pursuit, an intelligent group of thieves that was under duress merely parked their car, called in a phony 10-13 a mile away (covered by the same Radio Zone)and gleefully watched the RMPs run off in that direction--- and then quietly drove unhindered to wherever! The cops admitted they were hoodwinked. Worse, the criminals did not need a radio to do this.

Seriously, I believe closer surveillance of the cops is in order here. Remember the NYPD proposals cut out the Press, like a communist country. Why do that if there is nothing to hide.
btw: the encrypted signals are more easily interfered with than analog.

I will have some ways that these encrypted radios can be given to law abiding citizens(just like guns), who can put them to good use.

 

[memory master]

It's not a matter of PD hiding something, it's a matter of the lawbreakers knowing whose doing what and where.

 

[REDDEVIL_59]

It's not a matter of PD hiding something, it's a matter of the lawbreakers knowing whose doing what and where.

This makes no sense to me. All important operations and undercover missions are already encrypted---and should be! You are forgetting the closed Cellular Phone systems that these departments already employ on top of that.

Please tell me how the 9/11 terrorists made use of ordinary radio call traffic in planning their attack and carrying it out. It was the FD, PD, EMS, Port Authority, FBI, Secret Service, NORAD who did not know what was going on! An ordinary 'open trunked system' will cure that and not cut the press out!

The terrorists are not interested in what the authorities are doing or not doing-------only that the authorities do not know what they are doing-----because they have their own encrypted radio/cell systems-----which worked pretty well-----wouldn't you say?

 

[soda-acid]

Nassau County PD has been encrypted for a few years. The fire departments that are not dispatched by the County (Firecom) complained and were able to get two PD portables so that they could monitor the cops.

 

[REDDEVIL_59]

I think the compromise that will be adopted here (since I do not think the Press is going to be cut out as is being proffered) is a form of Encrypted Mixer Off Messaging.

For all the services, the dispatchers and the in the field higher ups might go to Encryption periodically, on the fly, when sensitive matters/incidents come up. Of course, we will all need the newest digital trunk tracking scanners for monitoring-----but they would rarely be rendered into $1,000+ paper weights!!!

All the transmissions will be in real time as now. The Press will be able to hear everything but State Secrets lol!.

The result will mean little change for the average listener with the right equipment-----and of course with the new frequencies and trunking-----$30 BaoFengs will be useless except for their legal usage.

Comments anyone?

 

[68jk09]

REDDEVIL can you please elaborate on the $30. BaoFengs being useless ? .... in NYC mine works well in the 400 MHZ range now.....will this have to do with the "trunking" ?

 

[REDDEVIL_59]

REDDEVIL can you please elaborate on the $30. BaoFengs being useless ? .... in NYC mine works well in the 400 MHZ range now.....will this have to do with the "trunking" ?

Well both the frequencies, VoCoder and Trunking will render those little wonders useless. There have been instances of interference and fake 10-13's transmitted over those analog radio wonders.
P-25 used by Public Safety usually operate in the 700-800mhz range. Voice is digitally encoded (this is not the encryption feature). A Trunking System, which for NYPD would have to be elaborate with all the Radio Zones involved and transmission/receiving obstacles over a large varied terrain.
P-25 I believe is C4FM like Yaesu Fusion(used by Amateurs) but not compatible due to a different VoCoder. The Encryption makes the digital voice signal impossible to return to Analog form w/o knowing the Seed Number which itself is entered via proprietary software. I think the Trunking too can be scrambled so it could not be followed even when Voice isn't Encrypted. So even if you have the proper radio and Seed Number, you would still need the software and a proprietary USB Cable.
Under the idea I gave above, at least a P-25 Activated Digital Trunking Scanner will be able to follow the 'Open' calls and responses.

 

[REDDEVIL_59]

HERE I AM AGAIN. I BELIEVE MY BEARCAT SDS-100 IS ABOUT TO BECOME A $1,000 PAPERWEIGHT. LOOK FOR "E" FOR TOTAL ENCRYPTION ON EVERY SERVICE TYPE AND EMISSION MODE. IT HAS BEGUN. IT WAS DELAYED BY COVID, BUT NO MORE. THE ONLY FIRE/EMS/PD INCIDENTS YOU WILL BE AWARE OF ARE THOSE THAT YOU YOURSELF ARE INVOLVED IN. Comments...........................

 

[IRISH]

HERE I AM AGAIN. I BELIEVE MY BEARCAT SDS-100 IS ABOUT TO BECOME A $1,000 PAPERWEIGHT. LOOK FOR "E" FOR TOTAL ENCRYPTION ON EVERY SERVICE TYPE AND EMISSION MODE. IT HAS BEGUN. IT WAS DELAYED BY COVID, BUT NO MORE. THE ONLY FIRE/EMS/PD INCIDENTS YOU WILL BE AWARE OF ARE THOSE THAT YOU YOURSELF ARE INVOLVED IN. Comments...........................

I thought i read on another thread here (possibly even social media) that only fire ground ops was going to be encrypted?

Hopefully this is the case. Here in Ireland the FD start moving to encrypted in 2018/19. Covid put it back but now Dublin Fire Brigade are the last to change over which they have all but just done

Our scanners are now SILENT

 

[Bulldog]

I don't see the point in encrypting Fire Ground or any other far department frequencies for that matter except for transmission information about your firefighters. Other than that what's the need? I understand encryption of EMS and some of the police frequencies but encryption of the standard fire ground operations seems totally useless and possibly a safety issue to the users for some degree.

 

[Skyler Fire]

I don't see the point in encrypting Fire Ground or any other far department frequencies for that matter except for transmission information about your firefighters. Other than that what's the need? I understand encryption of EMS and some of the police frequencies but encryption of the standard fire ground operations seems totally useless and possibly a safety issue to the users for some degree.

Jersey City FD Encrypted the Dispatch not to long ago but didn’t make any sense because they are not getting rid of the Fire Ground Channels so they say the address and all the talk is on there